Uhm. Anyway.

I'm not really a huge fan of OOC clans (..that seems kind of like an oxymoron). Seen them on Achaea, had my fill, and after really considering some of the things they've caused, I do feel they take something away from the RPing experience. The less I know about the person behind the character, the easier it is for me to RP with them in game. :D No offense, of course, I enjoy these forums as a way to interact with everyone OOCly, but.. there's a line there that everyone should recognise.

I won't go into details becuase I don't trust peopel's ability to keep ooc stuff ooc, but I think those that say OOC clans don't hurt anybody are naive.

MSN groups have this great chat room feature to anyone in the group. You can keep it open as long as you like and be logged in there while your logged into the game. I've done it many times and its been enjoyable. I've used it to work on constalations and stuff for Imperian because I felt odd saying to someone... So what constellation do you think is in the NE part of the sky tonight.

I have felt my game play enjoyment steadily decrease since a certain event happened, I want lots of combat in my gameplay, I hate sitting around talking. Too many people are making too many generalizations.

Though the more I think about this topic the more it reminds me of the issue of Talking in a movie theather. When I go to the movies with 10 friends, I want to be able to make snide comments especially if I've seen the movie before, but when I'm on a date, those 6 teenages in the front row are just really annoying sounding and take away from the experience for me.

Ok you all need to go sit in your corners and cool down. The point I was trying to make in the other thread that somehow is now being argued on multiple was this.. Oh and for the record I voted for number 1, and I will explain that as well.

OOC clans are not bad in themselves. On Achaea there is the downunder clan which is for all them weird Aussies *hides from his Aussie friends*. That is a decent reason for an OOC clan.

What is not a decent reason for an OOC clan is when it is used to rant IC about things, especially when it is one person telling others to screw over the place he comes from so he looks good. Now you can call it venting, or you can call it joking around, but to say that posting things here influences people but saying things on an OOC clan does not is ridiculous. You want to say "hey I live in Michigan and the weather sucks right now" fine go for it. The minute you are discussing the game in terms of what you or others should do, you are no longer an OOC clan.

Learn where the distinction is.

From my personal standpoint if a clan can’t logically be formulated to work in an IC environment there is really no point to allow them. Eventually they become a hinderance to healthy roleplay, taking away from the world at whole. I would like to see them go, however the decision is not entirely up to me.

Wonderful. Can I formally introduce the results of this poll as petition for a worldwide referendum on the subject?

No. These forums, and especially their polls, repersent nothing of the actual player base. I think Estarra has said that.

Hey, way to go Dritex, you proved my point! It's not a representative enough sample, but there's obviously a clear case for it, so we could get a better sample by holding a referendum.

Honestly...

Well, technically you can, since its an OOC clan. Y'know, OOC talking about OOC.

Nevermind, I'm tired.. leave me alone - Edit.

I proved no point, becasue you asked if you could take these poll results to get something. These poll results mean nothing. That is why you can't use them. That is what I was responding to.

If you make it possible to 100% guarantee that there's absolutely no chance that anyone will ever mischan ever, or take any OOC-clan/channel information IC, or let it effect the way they view a character, or talk IC, then sure, I don't mind. But people can't even act in a mature way on the Forums, and keep the Forums separate, let alone avoid mischanning with the current channels they have (ever hear someone mischan onto shouts?) so I don't see how people can say OOC clans will be used responsibly.

You really want to talk with your OOC buddies in an OOC way? Use the forums, AIM, MSN, an MSN group, IRC, or some other chat room. Until they can be used maturely and responsibly, quit protesting that people deserve OOC clans.

Rightio kids. More time for fun and games.

Ahem...

Rhysus, you say that because 2/3 (I think you used that statistic) of the people on these forums didn't like OOC clans, that a petition to have them banned could go into effect to see them gone. That's all well and good. If the majority of people don't like something, then it should go. Makes sense.

However.

I don't like huge taxes. I'm sure that there would be more than 2/3 of the population that don't like them. Does that mean we can petition to get rid of them? No way in hell. "But we NEED taxes. We don't NEED OOC clans". True enough, we don't NEED OOC clans like we NEED huge taxes, but the point is, that just because the majority says "We don't like it" doesn't mean that the powers that be will heed the voices of the masses, and let them get their way, simply because they're crying out. I've yet to see a petition against taxes (that succeeded anyway)

Lacostian said that if there's no way for an OOC clan to be formulated to work in an IC environment, there's no need for them.
The way I was inducted into Valek's little shindig, was him sending me an IC tell, asking me if I wanted to step inside his mind. At first I freaked out, since I had absolutely no idea what he was on about. I asked him "What do you mean by "stepping inside your mind?"". We had an entire conversation focussed around me trying to figure out what the hell he meant by his invitation inside his head. I finally accepted his "invitation to enter his mind", and lo and behold, I was asked to join The Dark Carnival Clan. Personally I thought it was a nice touch, and something I wouldn't have expected.

And if you are going to try and point fingers at others regarding the whole "making OOC statements in tells and abusing us" approach, then I'll gladly jump on the bandwagon and give out the names of Celestians and Serenwilders (Celestians mostly, think I had the odd one or two Serenwilders) who have called me such marvellous things as a buttf***, c***sucker, motherf***** and other exceptionally charming words, in tells AND says no less. At least you guys got the abuse in yellow writing rather than blue. But I don't want to start the verbal slugfests that permeated half of this thread, so I'll avoid the names of those people. It just goes to show that no one is perfect.

Everyone seems all to quick to break character if it suits them to do so, which is why there will always be those who are apparently ruining the experience for others with their actions. There isn't much you can do about it, truth be told. If you want to go all hardcore on OOC bashing, then why not ban people from asking how much damage they did? Or asking how much health you have? You can't. OOC clans may not be necessary, but they're hardly as detrimental as the witchhunts make them out to be. Guido made a fine (and very humourous, that cracked me up for some unknown reason) point about mischanns, mistells and such things. If you're truly as good an RPer as you all seem to think you are, you can always do what I do when I cop things like that, you ignore it as if it never happened, and move on with your RPing experience.

.......I talk way too much

hey, guys, relax!

OOC clans are OK. Sometimes people feel the need to go OOC (believe me, my life is much more important to me than that of my character). It is better if they do that in they clan, which is pre-agreed to be OOC.

I am sorry if you feel that OOCness disrupt your enjoyment of the game. I feel that excessive PK or immature players spoil mine, but I have to live with it.

It is all about sharing a game world with other people... it can't be everything the way you expect them. Let them have their OOC clans, and just don't join.

You are all missing the point.

"hey my brother just bought the new xbox game" = OOC

"hey you guys go and kill Daevos, haha" = IC

You can't have it both ways.

Note: I only picked Daevos cause well.. you all should go and kill him, but remember this is OOC so if you kill him I never told you to.

Edit:



So Valek used IC means to induct you into a clan. That by rights makes the clan an IC clan and refutes any statements of the clan being OOC. If you are going to use IC methods to induct people to a clan, you are not running an OOC clan except for the purpose of claiming that what you talk about can't be used against you. Which is simply looking for loopholes in the rules so you are not accountable.

I agree that OOC clans have no place in a role-playing game.

To correct a comment from Kaervas; To the best of my knowledge, I believe Aetolia actually put a bann on such clans. In the early days, there was one OOC clan that was openly advertised for a period of time, although the powers above quickly put a stop to that. Another clan with the potential to become OOC was formed afterwards, and the clanhead was instructed that the clan was to be strictly IC, or destroyed.

It was probably the people’s capacity to remain IC that wavers, rather than the clan’s purpose.

If those guys are talking as players and just saying to go kill Daevos, but don't act on it because it's in an OOC clan, I fail to see how you can't have it both ways. I can rant about people anywhere, as long as I keep Davrick's public face and demeanor consistant and seperate from my own there shouldn't be an issue until you make one. I've checked, I portray Davrick differently than I come across OOC with those that I speak with on an OOC level. Most are surprised who found out who my Achaean character is, the mindsets are somewhat different with how they react to certain things. I can not like someone as Davrick and they're my best friends OOC, or I can hate their guts OOC and just maintain civil and casual company with them, I'll rant about it OOC but not let it colour Dav's attitude towards someone until they do something to -him- to warrant any mood change towards them.



Valek roleplayed with him to get a sense of who he was. IC the conversation ended and Zhaine probably just thought Valek was being eccentric again (which.. if you live in mag, you understand is pretty damn common). Zhaine on an OOC level was inducted into the clan and that's where he got to step from being his character into being himself with others he spends time with. You're trying too hard to tie this to an idea that it's anti RP and crossing the line between IC and OOC and pulling OOC into IC. Whoever sent you those letters unfortunately really couldn't maintain the line apparnetly and blurred it where it shouldn't have been. I'm glad you realized what it was and posted it on the forums intead of dealing with it IC, but even now your trying to condemn the entire concept as some great evil loosed upon the world. Ultimately if you don't like OOC clans, don't join them.

I really don't think its any stretch.

But fine, let the clan exist, but don't be surprised if anything you say can and will be used against you in a RP environment. Just because you say its OOC does not make it OOC.

They tried to put a ban on OOC clans, all that happened then was that people gave their clans an IC name and carried on being OOC over them anyway. Looking at Aetolia now I could list about 10 OOC clans listed in their clan list.

- Graal

I'm sorry, but this is just completely irrelevant. How do you actually make that link at all? The people who enjoy top-notch roleplay are moaners who want peace? I love conflict, and I know a lot of people who posted against OOC clans love conflict too.

On top of what Kaervas said, I can name at least two clans I joined for family RP purposes that always end up going OOC.

Boys Boys.

This is exactly what I have just said. The clan's purpose is IC, however players do not always have the capacity to keep IC.

Deary me.

In the years I've played IRE games, I've been a member of a grand total of one intentionally OOC clan. In that time, I've joined and quit many others that were supposedly IC but that had alot of OOC bleed in.

I've heard it said that if you are going to speak about something, speak from your experience. I pesonally think this makes extraordinary sense, so let me do that.

Regarding OOC mistells, while I was a member of an OOC clan, I re-aliased anything close to 'clt' into three letter abbreviations for what channel it actually was, so that I had to use those quick and simple abbreviations to talk on that channel. I can honestly say that I never made a single mistell to any channel after that, OOC or not.

Regarding OOC chat influencing IC actions...I can't think back to a single instance where this has happened for me as a player. I completely agree with the statement that people who allow this to happen are the same people who would do it regardless of if they were in an OOC clan or not. If you can suspend your real persona to the extent that you can RP a character different from you the player, then you'll never have to worry about OOC influence on your IC actions, because you've already conquered the biggest OOC influence there is. You. For those of you still working on achieving this, kudos, keep it up, it takes time...but tend to your own garden before you try your hand on mine.

Regarding why AIM or MSN should be used over an OOC clan...there is no reason to use AIM or MSN over an OOC clan. If your problem is that you shouldn't use game supported code to chat out of character, that's pure semantics. The simple truth is that clans are easier to use and put less stress on your computer than juggling multiple windows while you play.

Do I think an OOC clan should ever be ICly advertised, referenced, or acted upon? Hell no. As far as IC goes, it doesn't exist. Period.

Do I think OOC clans should be allowed if that's really something some players enjoy? Absolutely. Saying that things should be 100% in-character, close-as-code-can-come-to-reality is all fine and noble in spirit, but an utter lie in application. Code will never equate to reality. The game provides the simple framework for the world, your character provides the reality and life. The onus for role-play is and always will be on you. As soon as you start arguing over how the code isn't restrictive enough to prevent OOC, or OOC clans...I'm sorry, as soon as this happens, you've totally forgotten that RP begins and ends with the player, not the code.

Like I said, people will be IC or OOC as their own role-playing skill and desire allow. Tend to your own character, let other people tend to theirs, and we will all be happier when we log on to play.