Not really, Shiro. People can bust over a grand of real life money to buy credits. That's pretty OOC. And they aren't both. The deliniation is pretty clear. Bought with ooc money, you can do whatever the hell you want with them. (read: trade between alts, anything. At all) Bought with gold or given to you for whatever reason (read: gotten through IC means) they are then IC and to be used accordingly.

That's not gray, in my opinion.

I didn't ignore your entire post, Credits can also come from Ic from contests or city credits or even guild credits.

Read my post, Shiro, the one just before yours. I imagine you were typing when I wrote it.

Can we get Divine opinions here?

Wow, I didn't realize people felt so strongly about these things... but I wish we could stick to one or two threads.

I voted for no ooc clans. My reasons are in the idiots forums, but until the divine decide to agree, we just have to try and avoid the ooc clans that already exist. Oh, and I'm speaking specifically about clans whose sole purpose is ooc chat, not ooc chatting on an otherwise ic clan.

I still hold the opinion that, FOR THE MOST PART, OOC credits are sold for IC gold to buy an OOC clan. IMHO, if there was a set credit price for clans, great. Save us the middle man.

Edit: And, dear god, I see Ellara is still typing. I foresee a long post. Or she's eating pizza. Which is it?

There's Lusternian history to explain at least some channels. I'd elaborate more, but I don't feel like it, so...

Channels - They're aetherwaves. Basically Planar threads that allow you to communicate with certain people. They're sort of like radios, but you use your mind to tune into aetherwaves, not a machine.

Tells - See above.

Shouts - It's a magical realm. Some things just ARE, without explanation. I'd like to see shouts gone, but there's good, -IC- things about them, too.

Messages - I think messages are mainly OOC, as there's letters that can be sent to people. Messages are there for convienence, basically.

I'd once again like to say that the minute you sell credits, you obtain gold, which is in your inventory. If you got killed while holding that gold, it would fall on the ground. It is part of the game after you sell your OOC credits. There may not be much in the way of IC explanation as to why you get this gold, but good roleplayers usually come up with an excuse. (They were rich to begin with, they dug up a treasure chest, etc.)

EDIT: Actually, Erion, I was spending time thinking.

Meh. Love you like ten day old bread, Ellara. Hard on the outside, soft and mushy on the inside, and covered in warm fuzzies.


Or something.

I still think a set credit price for clans would alleviate us having to go through IC means to achieve an OOC clan. Maybe make it at the average sale price at that time, and a mob to tell you (I mean literally TELL ) how much the average credit price is, and thus work out how much it's going to be. And rounded down to the whole number. A bit of math, but, eh. Stops the whinin' from all the anti-ooc peoples.

And takes away their anti-ooc clan ammo!

I voted they need to be banned.

In the words of my childhood bully/best friend.

"No sh*t Sherlock."

Edit: Grammatical error. Lemme alone, I'm tired.

Huh. I always thought it was Sherlock.

So your IC justification for Channels and Tells are that everyone is born with the ability to communicate psychically without any kind of training? And that when you join a city, guild, or clan you get the ability to talk to all those people on a magical "aetherwave" without having to do anything but join? And if the leaders kick you out your mind suddenly can't access the channel?

With paper thin rationalizing like this why not just assume OOC chatter is the person talking about dreams or that they are mildly insane. It actually makes more sense than the Aetherwaves.

OOC Clans - Currently OOC clans are allowed by Us, under the strict condition that they do not affect the IC world at all. They should not be considered to exist at all in any IC way.

Gold and Credits - Gold is IC. Credits depend on how you got them, if you bought them from the website, they're OOC, if you bought them from the credit market, they're IC. Hence, as soon as credits are up on the credit market, they become IC.

Ok, let me re-iterate my feelings about ooc clans and why, so that those who are in favour of them can invalidate these points with logic.

1) We don't have a realm-wide chat channel. Why allow someone with 500,000 gold sovereigns to create one?

2) (The Dark Carnival): Carnie (from Celestia, Plane of Light) says, "Blah."
You now know that the character is in the game, and you know what plane they are on. IC information is provided by the nature of the medium itself.

3) Clans are recognized ic. Statues/totems (ic devices) can be tuned against or for them, so how can that be explained in-game?

4) When housing is implemented, will we be able to create ooc private spaces? 'Inside a fluffy pink convertible'. People who don't want to go there don't have to, right? Well, except that it will show on thirdeye, and game mechanics will still apply within. The same applies to clans.

Take that attitude back to Achaea.

Er, I've never played in Achaea for longer than 5 minutes, so I'm not sure what you mean.

On a sidenote, this is a bad idea because buying a clan is one of the few ways that remove gold from the world, helping to limit inflation. If you allowed this, credit prices would go even higher because fewer people would be selling them.

We already do have realm-wide chat channels: The city, guild, and IC clan channels. These have a rice paper thin rational for existing and are routinely used to just chat. The difference is that YOU don't like what people are chatting about on their private OOC clan channel, which you are under no compulsion to join. If you need an IC reason for it's existance (despite the fact that clan's have no tangible form so you wouldn't really know they exist except through honours, which is pretty OOC its self) pretend that it is a Aetherwave for the insane.



I don't understand how this matters. If you are part of the same clan, IC or OOC, chances are you aren't going to be hunting each other. And as there are a cornocopia of ways to find someone without getting their planar location from their channel, this still makes no difference.



See my answer to 1. Also, as OOC clans can't act IC by Divine law, there is no need to tune anything against them.



The difference is that a clan doesn't have a physical structure in the game and that Dieties have to make your house custom so they aren't likely to allow things like a converitible. Houses and clans are nothing alike so it really doesn't apply. Not to mention hasn't been implemented so playing what if is way off the point.

I agree that a realm-wide chat channel shouldn't exist. The difference is that a clan is not realm-wide in that it encompasses only those individuals who wish to be a member of that clan. By that definition, it is private rather than realm-wide or public.


The caveat to this is that anyone privy to OOC information is aware that they should not to use such knowledge in-character. In that respect, this is not limited to OOC clans, and as such should properly be addressed in its broader form. Separate to this, I should point out that to my knowledge, The Dark Carnival is currently a Secret clan. For any OOC clan that is Secret, this particular point you mention is moot.


This is an excellent point. There have been several threads specifically addressing this, most notably from Visaeris regarding the Disciples of Crow. Although this particular clan was not OOC, the same arguments used for it apply well here. To summarize the strongest argument presented thus far, there is no satisfactory in-game explanation for how this is possible. It is an apparent limitation to the game itself. Ideally, it would be addressed by requiring such tuning to not be possible. However, as long as the Administration maintains that OOC clans are viable yet it is still possible for them to be targeted ICly, this issue will remain unresolved, it would seem.


To the contrary, the same does not apply to clans. Assuming they are Secret and Private, clans do not reveal information, nor do IC game mechanics apply within them.

Alright, I should have said OOC chat channel. As in, (OOC): You say, "This rocks way more than Achaea!" Saying its an aetherwave for the insane is an IC explanation, which is against the rules, apparently. Why isn't there an ooc based communication channel already in existence?

No, if it is an ooc clan, then there should be no relation between how the players feel about each other and the characters do. My point is that ic information is carried by the medium, I don't care what is done with it.

The clans aren't doing anything, other people are. Or does it mean that everyone else should been warned of which clans are ooc and ic, and then specifically banned from mentioning or acting as if that clan exists? Again, my primary point here is that clans interact very tangibly with the ic world.

But why can't we make an ooc space for people to vent? A clan is physically coded into the game, just as much as a room is. Again, I think you missed the point. This is an in-game space (a general term, either physical or psychological) for characters to communicate. After all, you can think of a room as a special flexible clan whose members at any time are those standing in the location, and use 'say' as the communication channel. It seems very similar to a clan in that regard. If the divine act to ensure that physical spaces don't break the roleplay mindset, why do we allow clans that do the same? Do any of the divine want to give reasons why ooc rooms aren't allowed?