That's a load of horse hockey. Some of us have spent quite a bit of time just working on backstory motivations for our actions. I've written several pages of various materials just in hopes of being able to present a storyline for my character.

And it's just as reasonable for people want Glomdoring to come back without being accused of just "wanting a ***** to give them refills." Just because you're part of one side doesn't mean the other doesn't have any validity.

You don't conquer a forest by sitting around and writing page upon page of backstory. Get out there, make some noise, some allies, a fair sized number of enemies. Crack some heads, demand some answers; show that forest who's boss!

This is now becoming steadily more impossible as Magnagora gets involved with Crow and has the Glomdoring as Arilyon's demesne, infused runes and all, but your point remains.

I'm working on it. The backstory was for a character angle which, so far hasn't worked out, but I'm trying. You know if we could have meshed our ideals IC we could have had fun working together. I think we're both obsessed over this. I seriously considered making the jump to Crow early on but I was uneasy about Visaeris. Not so much about his personality but about his stability. I'm comitted to Gloriana now though, so we'll see what happens.

To Shiri: Is there any thread you don't post in? If forum activity translated into IG effort you'd be a freakin' Titan already.

I'm still new to MUDs. They're about the only form of fanatsy/sci-fi gaming I hadn't tried. It's very immersive but fun too. I'm a little worried about the burn out everyone talks about. Hoping I don't hit that invisible wall too quick.

Yes, I'm notably absent on the creative arts problems, since I've got almost no creativity at all. I'm liking this titan thing though. Go on. You know you want to, Divine. I'm double trans now, gotta be something special!

What exactly does Gloomdoring stand for exactly so far, I mean I always thought that the taint killed off plants, so that couldn't exactly be the best thing with a commune you know living in a forest. But then maybe it could be a mutated strand of the taint, making it try to help plants, yet Magnagora's version of the taint try to kill plants. That could you know probbaly get rid of those silly accusations of Magnagora wanting a ***** to supply themselves with potions, because although they would both be quite close to one another, they would effectivly be competing with each other to have their own form of the taint spread. Then again I havn't really read much about the historys and there is probbally something or rather talking about how the taint is pure somethingorrather and cannot be changed.

Alright, to expand on my desire a little, personally I would like to see Gloriana partway restored but not completely.

Frankly, I cannot see how a tainted commune would work in the current framework, without completely destroying the way I see my character, my guild, and the world itself. If we find out that sure, a nature commune can coexist with the taint, that the fae can survive and thrive in the taint, or that a forest doesn't even have to be naturally alive to be a forest... well, everything I've used as Elryn's beliefs is pretty much screwed. So I am quite biased in that way, I don't want to have to abandon what I've done.

Also, I believe a Glomdoring tainted commune would not only lock Serenwilde and itself into an identical (and unoriginal) struggle like Celest and Magnagora, it would greatly reinforce the alliance between Celest and Serenwilde (as anti-taint) and Magnagora and Glomdoring (as pro-taint). Again, it would act to destroy Serenwilde's unique identity. Admittedly, we haven't exactly got it under control ourselves yet, but I believe this would force us both subtly and overtly to abandon our anti-city stance. It would also polarise the 'forestal' mentality, in what I consider to be a terrible way. As I mentioned before, it will contrast Serenwilde as the 'good, happy, light' place against the 'evil, forbidding, dark' place, without any alternative to lessen the effect. I predict that this would amplify the snuggle-factor a thousand-fold, and encourage some of us to think of ourselves as a 'good' forest when we're far from it.

To say that Gloriana/Glomdoring will become another Serenwilde without the taint, is identical to the argument that it will become another Magnagora with it. Both are unjustified, and I don't like either of them being used as justification.

Personally, I think it would be a good idea to remove the Taint physically from the forest, but leave the creature/spirits mentally insane or as evil as they are now, still against White Hart/Moon. That way, a very clear message remains for potential converts that this is a dark, forbidding forest, but it is actually a forest. Otherwise, ensure the distinction is clear, don't call it a commune, and give skills -without- forestal appearances.

A few quick points;

1) The Taint does not kill plants. Having a Tainted demesne slows plant growth, but so does any other demesne.

2) Who says Glomdoring has to have Fae? And haven't we already seen that there can be tainted, twisted fae from the 'Erion Incident' (for lack of better term)? Remember, Gloriana was tainted and changed to Glomdoring when the Taint was still an extension of Kethuru.

3) How the @#$% does Glomdoring force Serenwilde to abandon it's anti-city stance?

1 )Yes it does. Just because another demesne does too doesn't mean that Taint doesn't.

2 )Point.

3 )Well, I don't know if I agree on this or not, but since it's fairly likely Glomdoring and Magnagora would ally, tainted as they are, the Serenwilde would have to ally with Celest on a much more permanent basis to even survive. (Although they kinda are now? So I'm not sure how valid that point is.)

EDIT: 'cause I was being mean for no good reason. Sorry.

Hazar's point is that it is the demesne rather than the Taint that is damaging the plants, and he is quite correct.

Areas that are not forcibly Tainted but are Tainted in their present natural state, examples being the Blasted Lands and Glomdoring, have flourishing flora. Since the Taint has existed in these areas for hundreds of years, I would think that ample time to observe any damaging effects on the plantlife, wouldn't you agree?

In its present form, the Taint is a force of change. For those who oppose it, 'change' is couched in such terms as 'corrupted', 'warped', and 'mutated', but in all cases, these things are still change. There are no flavours to the Taint, it is all the same, whether found in Nil, Magnagora, or the Glomdoring. The only exception this has ever had was when Kethuru touched these realms, though even then it is academically interesting to note that the Taint converted instantly between the two forms, preserving the one flavour analogy.


There is no reason a Tainted commune would destroy any of that, Elryn. Your character would just be wrong in his beliefs...and what is so strange about a person believing something other than reality? History is rife with it, history is driven by such inconsistencies at times, and if everyone in the world knew and believed the truth, there would be no ideological conflict. As that is not the case, I think it safe to say you could continue on, if you wanted to.

As for nature and the fae surviving and thriving in the Taint...Magnagora has survived and thrived in the Taint, simply being changed by its presence. That is exactly what you would be confronted with in the Glomdoring. It would not be the nature and fae you know and love, but another, derivative breed. This is enough for Celest to hate Magnagora, this difference, and I am sure that it would also suffice to allow Serenwilde to hate the Glomdoring.


Regarding conflict between the Serenwilde and Glomdoring, it would not be an unoriginal struggle. Unless, you are willing to trivialize conflict in general, since like change, there are only ever variations on the theme.

Alliance between Serenwilde and Celest is terrible for everyone, honestly. Magnagora had its enemy in Celest and neither needed nor wanted one elsewhere. Serenwilde never needed to bed Celest for protection. Historically, Magnagora understands that the Serenwilde is against every city equally. As long as that is the case, the Serenwilde is safe, since it would serve Magnagora's interest to keep the Seren out of its conflict with Celest.

You are not with Celest for protection, you are with them out of fear.

Your history just becomes weaker and weaker the more you deviate from it, and be honest, there is no way even total war with every other faction in the realm can destroy you. It's an OOC fact, but a fact just the same...the Serenwilde really just needs to stick to its arrows on this one and reject every city. It's exactly like you said elsewhere, Elryn, when you stated that Magnagora's players should have OOCly backed off from conflict just a touch in order to preserve the IC balance for the realm. Serenwilde needs to make the same decision regarding it's own ideals, except that this time, rather than blindly following them like Magnagora did, they need to stop not following them.

Hmm. I don't know, has anyone tested by getting two rooms, harvesting them down to 10, waiting till the end of the month, and tainting one 10 minutes before hand (id est, before the Taint dissipates?)? I thought the plant-messing-up was due to the elemental imbalance, rather than just "the demesne."

And I'd think the latter thing was more about the herbs just evolving to be Taint-resistant over time. Which makes me wonder why it warps the creatures there, and most of the plants (Ravenwood etc.), but not the herbs.

You're still using the same argument as before, Shiri. Forced flooding kills plants. Forced Tainting kills plants. Passive Taint simply causes things to change.

Your observation on what is and isn't changed by the Taint is interesting. I would argue that the larger and more complex an organism, the more susceptible it is to Taint-driven change. Simple plants and very small creatures seem relatively unaffected by the Taint, while relatively larger things show greater mutation, in general. It would be intriguing to delve into this and see if it is more than just a pattern.

Hmm. On the other hand, there's still spore grasses...and I don't know if there's any difference between forced and passive taint, in this circumstance. Actually, you're probably right in that regard, since it'd be a sudden influx of Taint, which the plants can't cope with, compared to it building up gradually enough that they can resist it over time - much like taking a vaccine.
Okay, that point conceded. *g*

Isn't the goal to bring all into the taint? If so, isn't that all forcedtainting, in the sense that what wasn't tainted now is? So, thus, if Forced tainting is bad for the enviornment, then the only way for the environment to not suffer, is for the taint to neverspread from where it already is.

But then, thinking back on history, wouldn't Kethuru's creating of the taint cloud upon the basis be forced tainting, and thus would have hindered all plant life, just as forced tainting does now, but only to a much higher degree?

As for tainted fae existing...well, they wouldn't. One might say, "Well what about the little fae girl incident?" Well, she wasn't fae when tainted, she was an imp. The "fae" wouldn't likely be fae, but rather other odd things that used to be fae, but are now other things, just as the fae girl became an imp.

The goal is to bring all into the Taint? Who the Nil told you that? That is most definitely not so. I'm sure there are zealots on every side who just want everything different to die and their way to be the only way, but I assure you no reasoning mind feels that way.

As a Priest of Nil, my duty is to protect Nil. As a citizen of Magnagora, my duty is to protect the city and its holdings. I couldn't care less if you lived in Taint or not.

You based your argument on an incorrect assumption, so you will have to rework that in order for me to address any derived points as valid.

This part is completely correct. The Taint changes. A thing changed is no longer what it was.

Well considering the generalized goal of Magnagora is to rule everything, and thus, if they did, they'd bring about change to all with the taint, I guessed it would be the goal to bring all under it.

Geomancers alone are able to force Taint upon an area. This is done either to offset another mage's demesne, or to create their own demesne. Demesnes are used to track movement and hamper or kill people. This sort of Taint is the only Taint Magnagora brings to anything it controls. This is done to help protect that holding from aggressors.

To use your own example, assume that Magnagora rules everything. What, then, opposes us? Nothing. What use, then, for a Geomancer to Taint an area and set up a demesne? Considering that only other Magnagorans would be passing through it, and that Magnagora's laws prohibit citizens to assault each other...then there is no reason to force Taint on anything Magnagora controls.

So are you saying that if Magnagora were to win over Celest, that they wouldn't seek to destroy the Supernals, and bring the Celestines under the sway of the Nihilists? I mean, I don't think they would want a bunch of people running around, following the preachings of the light from the Supernals, and thus providing reason to rise up against Magnagoran rule.

What does that have to do with the Taint?