Dritex2004-12-27 00:53:43
Everything, considering the Supernals and those follwoing them would seek to ruin Magnagoran rule, for its refusal to not give up the taint.
I highgly doubt an empire can rule in peace, when it allows those within to want, seek, and plot to destroy it.
I highgly doubt an empire can rule in peace, when it allows those within to want, seek, and plot to destroy it.
Elryn2004-12-27 04:40:38
QUOTE(Melanchthon @ Dec 27 2004, 06:08 AM)
Areas that are not forcibly Tainted but are Tainted in their present natural state, examples being the Blasted Lands and Glomdoring, have flourishing flora. Since the Taint has existed in these areas for hundreds of years, I would think that ample time to observe any damaging effects on the plantlife, wouldn't you agree?
In its present form, the Taint is a force of change. For those who oppose it, 'change' is couched in such terms as 'corrupted', 'warped', and 'mutated', but in all cases, these things are still change. There are no flavours to the Taint, it is all the same, whether found in Nil, Magnagora, or the Glomdoring. The only exception this has ever had was when Kethuru touched these realms, though even then it is academically interesting to note that the Taint converted instantly between the two forms, preserving the one flavour analogy.
In its present form, the Taint is a force of change. For those who oppose it, 'change' is couched in such terms as 'corrupted', 'warped', and 'mutated', but in all cases, these things are still change. There are no flavours to the Taint, it is all the same, whether found in Nil, Magnagora, or the Glomdoring. The only exception this has ever had was when Kethuru touched these realms, though even then it is academically interesting to note that the Taint converted instantly between the two forms, preserving the one flavour analogy.
I think this is a perfect viewpoint for the proponents of the Taint, excellently portrayed as something of benefit. However, we must remember that the Taint 'changes' what is inherently natural in very dramatic and dangerous (to my characters mind) way. More importantly, because growth, evolution and death are natural processes, the Taint works against these by creating the undead and various living parallels: creatures and plants that do not change but exist in their current decaying state eternally, against natural laws.
To say that plantlife 'flourishes' within tainted areas is incorrect. Garden herbs that are tended and sown by professional herbalists will survive, it is true. However, all other forms of flora within Glomdoring are rather distorted and my character believes there is little that is actually alive in any meaningful sense.
QUOTE
There is no reason a Tainted commune would destroy any of that, Elryn. Your character would just be wrong in his beliefs...and what is so strange about a person believing something other than reality? History is rife with it, history is driven by such inconsistencies at times, and if everyone in the world knew and believed the truth, there would be no ideological conflict. As that is not the case, I think it safe to say you could continue on, if you wanted to.
Aye, you are right that it would mean I am wrong. In many ways this is a very selfish reason for why I don't want the Glomdoring to arrive. What I mean is that my character believes fully that he serves the fae because they are the spiritual heart of nature. Should it be proved that in fact nature flourishes and evolves alongside the taint, then so must the fae, and thus there is no reason we should protect them from it, nor should we have any reason for disliking the cities. You suggest that my character should willingly believe a falsehood, when presented with great evidence to the contrary. I am happy to slant the perception Elryn uses, but I don't think I can ignore or overlook such things.
QUOTE
As for nature and the fae surviving and thriving in the Taint...Magnagora has survived and thrived in the Taint, simply being changed by its presence. That is exactly what you would be confronted with in the Glomdoring. It would not be the nature and fae you know and love, but another, derivative breed. This is enough for Celest to hate Magnagora, this difference, and I am sure that it would also suffice to allow Serenwilde to hate the Glomdoring.
Again, my character believes all fae are the spirits of nature. Not good nor evil, just a manifestation of the forces of Life. A tainted 'breed' of fae would mean that nature itself still retains a spiritual lifeforce when tainted, and hence my character would be convinced (well, maybe) that the taint is a perfectly acceptable state of being.
I don't really mind if it is set up in such a way that both sides are given opposing philosophies that have an underlying compromise... but to make Glomdoring another force of nature (as it is commonly accepted) like this would simply make us wrong.
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Regarding conflict between the Serenwilde and Glomdoring, it would not be an unoriginal struggle. Unless, you are willing to trivialize conflict in general, since like change, there are only ever variations on the theme.
I mean in the sense of taint vs non-taint. It is my greatest fear that every organization will take an extreme stance, and you will have all the tainted ones, against all the untainted.
QUOTE
Alliance between Serenwilde and Celest is terrible for everyone, honestly. Magnagora had its enemy in Celest and neither needed nor wanted one elsewhere. Serenwilde never needed to bed Celest for protection. Historically, Magnagora understands that the Serenwilde is against every city equally. As long as that is the case, the Serenwilde is safe, since it would serve Magnagora's interest to keep the Seren out of its conflict with Celest.
You are not with Celest for protection, you are with them out of fear.
Your history just becomes weaker and weaker the more you deviate from it, and be honest, there is no way even total war with every other faction in the realm can destroy you. It's an OOC fact, but a fact just the same...the Serenwilde really just needs to stick to its arrows on this one and reject every city. It's exactly like you said elsewhere, Elryn, when you stated that Magnagora's players should have OOCly backed off from conflict just a touch in order to preserve the IC balance for the realm. Serenwilde needs to make the same decision regarding it's own ideals, except that this time, rather than blindly following them like Magnagora did, they need to stop not following them.
You are not with Celest for protection, you are with them out of fear.
Your history just becomes weaker and weaker the more you deviate from it, and be honest, there is no way even total war with every other faction in the realm can destroy you. It's an OOC fact, but a fact just the same...the Serenwilde really just needs to stick to its arrows on this one and reject every city. It's exactly like you said elsewhere, Elryn, when you stated that Magnagora's players should have OOCly backed off from conflict just a touch in order to preserve the IC balance for the realm. Serenwilde needs to make the same decision regarding it's own ideals, except that this time, rather than blindly following them like Magnagora did, they need to stop not following them.
22053
You are absolutely correct when you talk about the ic stance we should be taking. I totally agree. However, as I said in the other thread, Magnagora's complete dominance extends to disheartening the players behind Celest/Serenwilde characters, such that in order to obtain some small semblance of self-respect (in an ooc/ic sort of way) the only option is to combine our strengths.
Of course, as for this particular conflict, we aren't going to stand back and let our sacred beliefs be trampled on... it is still very much our character to fight against Magnagora when they hurt us.
Oi, I hope this makes sense, my thoughts are somewhat disjointed at the moment.
Atmos2004-12-28 15:32:04
Coming into the conversation late. Wonderful. I voted for Glomdoring. Surprise.
Let me see if I've got this right: one of the reasons that you don't want Glomdoring to arrive is because it would provide evidence that your characters thinking was incorrect all along? How would this be a bad thing? It would provide a very interesting RP situation as your character, as he tries to come to grips with this startling new revelation. Characters are meant to change over time. They become boring and predictable if they don't.
As for all those saying that a Glomdoring commune would simply polarize the conflict into Tainted vs. Untainted, that all depends on who is put into leadership positions. If a weak leader is put into power, they'll give into threats and the like. I know a fair number of people that are interested in the forest that have no interest in seeing it become an extension of an existing city.
QUOTE(Elryn @ Dec 26 2004, 11:40 PM)
Aye, you are right that it would mean I am wrong. In many ways this is a very selfish reason for why I don't want the Glomdoring to arrive. What I mean is that my character believes fully that he serves the fae because they are the spiritual heart of nature. Should it be proved that in fact nature flourishes and evolves alongside the taint, then so must the fae, and thus there is no reason we should protect them from it, nor should we have any reason for disliking the cities. You suggest that my character should willingly believe a falsehood, when presented with great evidence to the contrary. I am happy to slant the perception Elryn uses, but I don't think I can ignore or overlook such things.Â
Let me see if I've got this right: one of the reasons that you don't want Glomdoring to arrive is because it would provide evidence that your characters thinking was incorrect all along? How would this be a bad thing? It would provide a very interesting RP situation as your character, as he tries to come to grips with this startling new revelation. Characters are meant to change over time. They become boring and predictable if they don't.
As for all those saying that a Glomdoring commune would simply polarize the conflict into Tainted vs. Untainted, that all depends on who is put into leadership positions. If a weak leader is put into power, they'll give into threats and the like. I know a fair number of people that are interested in the forest that have no interest in seeing it become an extension of an existing city.
Elryn2004-12-28 22:23:12
QUOTE(Atmos @ Dec 29 2004, 01:32 AM)
Let me see if I've got this right: one of the reasons that you don't want Glomdoring to arrive is because it would provide evidence that your characters thinking was incorrect all along? How would this be a bad thing? It would provide a very interesting RP situation as your character, as he tries to come to grips with this startling new revelation. Characters are meant to change over time. They become boring and predictable if they don't.
22562
Aye, that is correct. Of course I will roll with the punch if it comes, whether that iincludes leaving my deity as a false god, leaving serenwilde as a group who should not be attacking gloriana/cities, or whatever - I just would prefer not to. I did say it was selfish in many ways. I don't actually RP a whole lot as a separate character, you see. I prefer immersion to RP in MUDs, that is, given a certain background, what would I do if I were in the world.
Richter2004-12-29 00:01:09
I didn't read the whole thread, and can't remember if I've posted here before.
But, the thought has come to me that the two cities need to be made, and Glomdoring already is an area. That gives the Glomdoring restoration effort a little kick.
But, we need to remember what They said. And I'll bet you there are not plans to all of a sudden, just barely into the game, they release three new areas.
But, the thought has come to me that the two cities need to be made, and Glomdoring already is an area. That gives the Glomdoring restoration effort a little kick.
But, we need to remember what They said. And I'll bet you there are not plans to all of a sudden, just barely into the game, they release three new areas.
Hazar2005-01-01 19:58:01
One point made a while back was about Glomdoring allying with Magnagora. This pretty much dropped out of the conversation.
I would humbly point out that the majority of those involved in raising Glomdoring, apart from this new Magnagoran effort, dislike Magnagora for when they enemied the Crows just because of Visaeris, along with a few other policy decisions.
I would humbly point out that the majority of those involved in raising Glomdoring, apart from this new Magnagoran effort, dislike Magnagora for when they enemied the Crows just because of Visaeris, along with a few other policy decisions.
Unknown2005-01-02 11:01:17
I'm quite interested in Hallifax and Glomdoring myself. Gaudiguch sounds cool as well though. I just want to see them ALL return. It would make for some wonderful discoveries, and I hope not very much bloodshed. Of course some people will naturally fight afterwards, but I want to see the return of the cities and forests as not being a bloodbath..