My point is that players really can't use OOC knowledge of a language to their advantage. They can only use it for bad RP (IMO). The game can use OOC languages as a constructiuve device, but if you don't treat it as such then that's not living up to the spirit of the device. That's not an advantage. That's bad RP.

For example, some concepts in Kaballah were borrowed for High Magic. If you start spouting off stuff about the Qliphoth, which is a piece of Kaballah that was not included in High Magic, or even that Binah et al are part of the "Sephiroth" to make yourself a better "scholar of High Magic" then you are not using your OOC knowledge to your advantage. You are using it to be OOC and create bad RP. Whether it's concepts or language, it's the same either way.

Binah in Lusternia != Binah in Kaballah;
French on Earth != "French" in Delport;

Such borrowing is necessary to give players a frame of reference for what things are, but they need to treat them properly. Like Totems, that tells me as a player that it is very nature-oriented and very spiritual. It should ICly be treated that way. That doesn't mean that if I learn Totems then I have license to go around saying that I want to build a teepee, lead a raindance, and send smoke signals from Serenwilde to the hunters in Glomdoring. And if I did something stupid like that then it obviously would not be classified as an advantage I have over those living outside of America that are less likely to know what Totems refer to. I think (hope) I'd be laughed out of the commune.

I hope the latest announce settles this topic.

It does. That needed to be said.

Don't smoke around the kiddies though. *tsk*

To the person who said English knowledge will help you with Latin... I should really write a post in Latin...

I. iam primum omnium satis constat Troia capta in ceteros saeuitum esse Troianos, duobus, Aeneae Antenorique, et uetusti iure hospitii et quia pacis reddendaeque Helenae semper auctores fuerant, omne ius belli Achiuos abstinuisse; casibus deinde uariis Antenorem cum multitudine Enetum, qui seditione ex Paphlagonia pulsi et sedes et ducem rege Pylaemene ad Troiam amisso quaerebant, uenisse in intimum maris Hadriatici sinum, Euganeisque qui inter mare Alpesque incolebant pulsis Enetos Troianosque eas tenuisse terras. et in quem primo egressi sunt locum Troia uocatur pagoque inde Troiano nomen est: gens uniuersa Ueneti appellati. Aeneam ab simili clade domo profugum sed ad maiora rerum initia ducentibus fatis, primo in Macedoniam uenisse, inde in Siciliam quaerentem sedes delatum, ab Sicilia classe ad Laurentem agrum tenuisse. Troia et huic loco nomen est. ibi egressi Troiani, ut quibus ab immenso prope errore nihil praeter arma et naues superesset, cum praedam ex agris agerent, Latinus rex Aboriginesque qui tum ea tenebant loca ad arcendam uim aduenarum armati ex urbe atque agris concurrunt. duplex inde fama est. alii proelio uictum Latinum pacem cum Aenea, deinde adfinitatem iunxisse tradunt: alii, cum instructae acies constitissent, priusquam signa canerent processisse Latinum inter primores ducemque aduenarum euocasse ad conloquium; percontatum deinde qui mortales essent, unde aut quo casu profecti domo quidue quaerentes in agrum Laurentinum exissent, postquam audierit multitudinem Troianos esse, ducem Aeneam filium Anchisae et Ueneris, cremata patria domo profugos, sedem condendaeque urbi locum quaerere, et nobilitatem admiratum gentis uirique et animum uel bello uel paci paratum, dextra data fidem futurae amicitiae sanxisse. inde foedus ictum inter duces, inter exercitus salutationem factam. Aeneam apud Latinum fuisse in hospitio; ibi Latinum apud penates deos domesticum publico adiunxisse foedus filia Aeneae in matrimonium data. ea res utique Troianis spem adfirmat tandem stabili certaque sede finiendi erroris. oppidum condunt; Aeneas ab nomine uxoris Lauinium appellat. breui stirpis quoque uirilis ex nouo matrimonio fuit, cui Ascanium parentes dixere nomen.

exerpt from Livy's Early History of Rome, because I was to lazy to think up a post in Latin :-p

Well, okay. Not ALL of us can read Latin. But Latin's certainly more...well, intuitive, to an English reader, than say French or German. That's just in my opinion, though, but having studied both French and Latin and with lots of family in Germany (and both my parents being fluent in it), English has a lot more Latin influence. We could at least get the gist of a Latin post, given a fair amount of time, whereas with French you either know it or you don't.

EDIT: Too slow, that I am. Give me a few minutes on that post. *g*

Its just the aftermath of the Trojan war, and its impact... first part of the first book.

And I just read his post, I found it easier to figure out what he is saying then when I first started taking Latin, Hebrew, or any of my other languages.

By the way guy who told us English speakers to learn more then English, I know Latin, English, Hebrew, Welsh, and am learning Greek and Arabic, so 'hmph.'

Okay I all realise that you are waiting for the infamous Qale to post on who the post was aimed at. For one I don't speak a dime of french really I use a world.altavista.com translator and it takes me several minutes to come up with a translation because words don't always work and translate into french. I picked up on Delport and loved it. Trae and I decided to roleplay people from Delport and I have loved every part of it. we made a french sounding surname and I have received many compliments and I even have coined french sayings into alias english variations so I can effectively roleplay. I also took cooking for the sake of it all and even named my shop bins with variations of english words to make it sound more ethnic. Let me say I proud of all the work I have done and the ladies love me for it. Not to mention I have received more compliments than insults so I will just let this slip by.

I find it rather harsh that the post wasn't even about anyone and it was for Delport. Its kind of hard to change my roleplaying route so I will have to switch my roleplay to probably finding some sacred documents. I find it rather strange that I was put down quite a bit and sent messages saying that I was stupid in doing so. The reason I wrote in all French was because I was addressing Delport, not anyone else in the world so as they could understand me. Hell to everyone else. I made a similar post on PUBLIC 95 and I doubt all my french is completely accurate at that.

Your whole regards to other crazy languages coming into Lusternia don't phase me in fact if Delport didn't have a dialect of common I wouldn't even bother with it. I don't seem german being spoken in the world or anything else so I didn't speak of it. Watashi wa Qaletaqa desu. Itadakimasu. Whatever its not in Lusternia so I didn't bring it in. I speak a little Japanese myself but I haven't been ooc about it.

If you can learn Delportianese great. In fact that was your choice to roleplay it. The mere fact that you know french inside the game changes your roleplay so that you have had to have learned a bit here and there. I would be glad to held language classes and I have already done so in game.

If someone in game who is rather bad at roleplaying asks if I am speaking french I take it offensively because many people have asked that and I say why do you foreigners keep insulting me with pitiful slang or something to that effect. I wanted my character to be reclusive because of his language and the outsider because people can't understand everything he says. This immediately builds a wall around my character to ensure that I won't be understood should I wish for it. The fact that I don't know french is even more respectable in this regard for roleplaying it.

If you didn't want Delport to have a french dialect thats your fault. But me as a character have put money into this game and I as a patron of Lusternia do in fact have a right to roleplay in an existing fantasy world. I don't see why you can't just work with me instead of ruining all my roleplay (honestly) in one post. It just doesn't give me any credit for the work I have put into roleplaying effectively.

Yes and I am indeed proud that the Archons in Celest say, "Salut, Qaletaqa." And my roleplay has already had a profound impact on all of Celest and they enjoy it from what I can tell.

I seem remember a couple different divine pointing out that the Delportians did not speak fluently, and that what they spoke was only a handful of words left over from the settlers that came with Estarra.

And this was when I was a Celestian. So. Shrug.

Although I do applaud you for attempting to go into a deeper form of RP, I think common sense should have been used, however. None of the mobs in Delport spoke pure french. Only a few words thrown in.

But a good attempt, nonetheless.

Sounds clever? Wow...My ego is not that big.

Delportians seem more like they do speak fluent French, but try to speak common to whoever talks to them...cause the french words aren't really integrated in their way of talking, they talk exactly as if a rl frenchman tries speaking english, which I thought was the point of Delport.

This is funny to think about because they have never, ever spoken to me who is the root of all their so called problems. And how do you know they don't speak french I have been roleplaying that they speak common with a variance in dialect so people can understand them more fluently. I just picked up on the ethnic quality I suppose.

Not to mention that I am human too so I am already a descendent of the settlers so its 'possible' that I do know or according to Estarra I don't.

Okay, I didn't bother to read this whole thing. But I'm going to be very blunt.

Francais a tres simplement.

French is not that hard to learn. In fact, the only language in the world more closely related to English is...American. STop whining, get out there and actually put some effort in to something other then your typing.

S'il vous plait, et bon vacances.

Yeah just go to a language translator and your all set.

But they can, can't they? I mean, the raindance would be asking the spirits to bring rain upon the lands. That to me seems very spiritual and nature-oriented.

Well, I think Estarra's post cleared it all up. Delportians don't speak French at all, especially not as much French as you put into your post. They pretty much forgot the language except for a few remaining words. It's kind of sucky for you, but I have to say it's not really your fault. Since Delportians do speak a little bit of French, it was easy to assume they're all fluent in French.

I guess we all just have to forget about the post. Or if one of the Gods deletes it, and lets you rewrite it with only using a few French phrases? I just hope you don't continue talking in French - learn from your mistakes. :/

Well I just feel I have let the whole game down because of my bad roleplaying and I didn't even know it was wrong.

It didn't bother me at all but I can read french so . . .

It doesn't really matter, Qal. Just ask a Divine if they can delete it, and then write a new one. It was really a simple mistake to make.

You shouldn't. I for one won't be holding it against you and I don't feel 'let down.' You tried something cool and more daring than I would have dared to try so good for you! It didn't work out, but hey, you tried! And it's not totally irredeemable is it? Like Iggy said, just rewrite it in english with a bit o' french thrown in.