Daganev2004-12-29 10:43:01
When you hit once every 5 seconds... ever 100 to 200 points count.
Val2004-12-29 14:04:11
Trueheal doesn't stop mobs from hitting you? Odd I could have sworn I saw someone using it while bashing astral the other day. Maybe your mistaken?
Melanchthon2004-12-29 16:38:31
Hunting as a lich is simply ridiculous, the drawbacks firmly outweigh the benefits. I always use Vitae, even with the experience loss.
The only time I use Lich is when I'm on Prime, in an area I won't conglutinate, and think I may die twice if I use Vitae.
Even then, I will usually just go die to something off-plane to get rid of it later.
There are only two reasons I can see anyone wanting this skill:
1) They engage in frequent PvP, in which it is actually usefull.
2) They've never actually used it before.
The only time I use Lich is when I'm on Prime, in an area I won't conglutinate, and think I may die twice if I use Vitae.
Even then, I will usually just go die to something off-plane to get rid of it later.
There are only two reasons I can see anyone wanting this skill:
1) They engage in frequent PvP, in which it is actually usefull.
2) They've never actually used it before.
Unknown2004-12-29 17:02:45
I only have Gifted Necromancy, Virtuoso Tarot, 50% Mythical Nihilism. Why? Wrack isn't worth what, 75 credits?, in my eyes, Necromancy isn't worth it at all, and Tarot is the only thing I'm going to learn if I want to seriously PK, and then only to 50% Mythical.
Eldanien2004-12-29 17:36:29
I should rephrase that part. The prismatic barrier counts as a pentagram/circle against denizens. If they can't get past a shield... well... probably don't need Trueheal anyhow. If they can void, their void breaks the prismatic barrier.
Notably, everything in the astral breaks shields (or is supposed to, if bugs aren't occuring). If you saw a prismatic barrier stopping an astral mob, it means that there's a bug keeping them from voiding. That's happened a few times off and on, in my memory.
Notably, everything in the astral breaks shields (or is supposed to, if bugs aren't occuring). If you saw a prismatic barrier stopping an astral mob, it means that there's a bug keeping them from voiding. That's happened a few times off and on, in my memory.
Shiri2004-12-29 17:39:44
QUOTE(SirVLCIV @ Dec 29 2004, 06:02 PM)
50% Mythical Nihilism. Why? Wrack isn't worth what, 75 credits
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I think it'd be more like 30-40. It's about 400 lessons to trans from Mythical 0%, if you've 50% that's 200 odd, so that's only like 33 credits.
I still see your point though.
Unknown2004-12-31 14:07:22
I do think that Lich needs to be rather completely reworked, since there is a lot of criticism over it. Some think it's too power, some think it's too weak for various reasons. I think the main annoyance for me is the experience loss with it. Of course if there were to be an equivalent skill spread over other guilds, I am certain people would be far less ready to complain about Lich.
The power loss for Lich can't really be considered bad when one looks at the amount of power that Magnagora both has, and is likely to gain in the future. Also can't complain about Lich too much if you look at how frequently it is used despite it's "downsides".
The power loss for Lich can't really be considered bad when one looks at the amount of power that Magnagora both has, and is likely to gain in the future. Also can't complain about Lich too much if you look at how frequently it is used despite it's "downsides".
Daevos2004-12-31 14:43:31
Ahh, I see now, because Magnagora worked hard to amass a vast supply of power, we deserve to have bad skills.
And no, I'm not saying that Lichdom is a bad skill, I'm just saying that it is flawed. And we tire of it being complained about, especially since we have recently lost contagion in its original form.
Its seriously getting to the point where people are starting to feel that all their efforts are for nothing, since every time they excel, more of the deck is stacked against them.
And no, I'm not saying that Lichdom is a bad skill, I'm just saying that it is flawed. And we tire of it being complained about, especially since we have recently lost contagion in its original form.
Its seriously getting to the point where people are starting to feel that all their efforts are for nothing, since every time they excel, more of the deck is stacked against them.
Elryn2004-12-31 15:02:28
QUOTE(Daevos @ Jan 1 2005, 12:43 AM)
Its seriously getting to the point where people are starting to feel that all their efforts are for nothing, since every time they excel, more of the deck is stacked against them.
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As opposed to those who work equally as hard but fail every time? Come on, enjoy your success, and empathise a little with the losers. I don't think any changes are coming around just because magnagoran players are excelling over everyone else on a perfectly level playing field.
Incidentally, I don't mind Lich the way it is now. Its annoying for their enemies, sure, but then all guilds need a few nifty skills.
Unknown2004-12-31 15:39:16
QUOTE(Angel @ Dec 31 2004, 08:07 AM)
The power loss for Lich can't really be considered bad when one looks at the amount of power that Magnagora both has, and is likely to gain in the future.
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All Magnagorans except the Guild Champions have strict limits on how much power they may draw, and it is a fairly low amount. In fact, if I remember correctly, I don't think the ration has been raised since day 1. They aren't allowed to just draw ten thousand power and then go romping about obliterating everything in sight. They take the Megalith very seriously.
Kaervas2004-12-31 18:26:59
The ration has been raised several times since day 1, it's 10 power and 25% reserves every day now
Unknown2004-12-31 18:58:17
Not saying y'all deserve to have bad skills, but that it's not something that you really need to complain about. Considering things... it should take a lot of power to be able to cheat ones death.
The high power is part of careful rationing, which only Magnagora implemented right and having an upper hand with the villages. It helps, you have to agree?
Ohh... and the other thing... as for having the anti-undead skill Radiance... I've never really seen it be that much use in combat so far. It's rarely efficient (or even possible) to try to kill knights through damage, so it's only good against the Nihilists.
I don't think Lich needs to be downgraded as such, just the nature of its advantages and disadvantages should be reexamined.
Not greatly a pressing issue though, I think the Mages deserve some upgrades first...
The high power is part of careful rationing, which only Magnagora implemented right and having an upper hand with the villages. It helps, you have to agree?
Ohh... and the other thing... as for having the anti-undead skill Radiance... I've never really seen it be that much use in combat so far. It's rarely efficient (or even possible) to try to kill knights through damage, so it's only good against the Nihilists.
I don't think Lich needs to be downgraded as such, just the nature of its advantages and disadvantages should be reexamined.
Not greatly a pressing issue though, I think the Mages deserve some upgrades first...
Shiri2004-12-31 19:11:30
Mages do NOT need any more upgrades. Look at Aquamancers. (Actually, Geomancy might do with some boosts, but Aquamancers and Hartstone are great now.)
Radiance isn't that bad, actually.
Radiance isn't that bad, actually.
Sudoxe2005-01-01 04:50:10
QUOTE(Thorgal @ Dec 27 2004, 09:42 AM)
Yeah...let's compare the main secondary trans skills of Lusternia...
Lichdom:
Gives -2 strength and -2 intelligence 60% of the time, +2 str and +2 int 40% of the time, you get to chill your target and breathe the just massively downgraded contagion for 3 power instead of 6. Costs you 20 power and the only way to become a lich is to heartstop, cause in a fight there's no way you're gonna survive after becoming a lich.
Drawdown:
Gives +1 intelligence, mana regeneration, a LARGE boost to cutting and blunt resistance and the skill moonburst, which does massive, intelligence-dependant and 100% magical damage, usable with rage so you can blast down anyone in the continent. Costs only 10 power.
Stagform:
Gives +1 dexterity, health regeneration, another boost to cutting and blunt resistance and the skill gore, which does massive physical damage and will impale your target if it's below 50% health (mind, it used to be an instakill if below 50% health). Costs only 10 power.
Trueheal:
Heals all your limb wounds, fully heals your health and boosts it above max, fully heals your mana and boosts it above max, heals all your afflictions, and finally surrounds you with an impenetrable prismatic barrier. Costs only 10 power.
If you're just a little objective you'll stop wanting to nerf lichdom now, it sucks, if anything, it needs upgrades or major changes.
Lichdom:
Gives -2 strength and -2 intelligence 60% of the time, +2 str and +2 int 40% of the time, you get to chill your target and breathe the just massively downgraded contagion for 3 power instead of 6. Costs you 20 power and the only way to become a lich is to heartstop, cause in a fight there's no way you're gonna survive after becoming a lich.
Drawdown:
Gives +1 intelligence, mana regeneration, a LARGE boost to cutting and blunt resistance and the skill moonburst, which does massive, intelligence-dependant and 100% magical damage, usable with rage so you can blast down anyone in the continent. Costs only 10 power.
Stagform:
Gives +1 dexterity, health regeneration, another boost to cutting and blunt resistance and the skill gore, which does massive physical damage and will impale your target if it's below 50% health (mind, it used to be an instakill if below 50% health). Costs only 10 power.
Trueheal:
Heals all your limb wounds, fully heals your health and boosts it above max, fully heals your mana and boosts it above max, heals all your afflictions, and finally surrounds you with an impenetrable prismatic barrier. Costs only 10 power.
If you're just a little objective you'll stop wanting to nerf lichdom now, it sucks, if anything, it needs upgrades or major changes.
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From the looks of these, Drawdown and Stagform look a lot more desirable when put next to Lichdom and Trueheal, both in granted effects, and how often they're likely to be in use. (isnt that one of the things that means a skill is good?) I cant comment all that well on Trueheal, but I will on Lichdom.
As someone that heads up to Astral on occasion (haha, I'm so funny!), I'll only die up there when I dont keep track of the respawning goats (happened a few times), and am thereon left to hunt with 10 intel for 60% of the time unless I get myself killed and vitae to get rid of it. However, that is matched by the fact that it will last until death should you actually like being undead.
The freeze touch granted with lichdom is.. at best, something you can use to roleplay with, the chilling touch of the undead, etc. Does it get used? I'm confident that it isnt, especially when all it's doing is chilling one person at a cost of roughly 4.5 seconds balance. My idea for it? Make it comparable to Gore and Moonburst; cold damage, with chance of chilling, or along those lines.
Unknown2005-01-01 04:59:25
The Magnagora crew I've recently joined often compares lichdom to a skill called numen which supposedly cuts all damage by 60%. Since Lichdom has a (small) chance to be countered they sound somewhat comparable to me. And while ur'Guard also have a skill I hear that boosts attack power by 30% or something, I've been told it lasts around 10 seconds while numen lasts around 50.
So yeah, I'm a newb and this might not be accurate at all, but I figured it was worth bringing up.
So yeah, I'm a newb and this might not be accurate at all, but I figured it was worth bringing up.
Sudoxe2005-01-01 05:07:39
From my understanding of Numen and Lichdom, they have nothing in common.
Now that I think about it, I remember a few talking about the Numb like skills, and how one of them was better. Perhaps this is what you heard?
Now that I think about it, I remember a few talking about the Numb like skills, and how one of them was better. Perhaps this is what you heard?
Daevos2005-01-01 05:19:43
I think he was trying to talk about the comparison between Numen and Omen. Like the fact that Numen costs 3 power, cuts all damage by 60%, and lasts about 52 seconds. And Omen costs 3 power, increases all damage dealt on the target by about 30%, and lasts about 10 seconds. The only limitation on both, is the power cost.
Sudoxe2005-01-01 05:31:13
QUOTE(Eldanien @ Dec 29 2004, 09:36 PM)
I've been told there is a regeneration bonus for liches. Is this incorrect?
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QUOTE(Help Artifacts Defensive)
*NOTE ON REGENERATION: Regeneration abilities include totem spirits like moon, tree and river bonds, stag form, moon drawdown, sacraments honor, athletics regeneration, lich form. It does _not_ include regeneration by items enchanted by Mercy and Perfection.
Despite what you have heard, and what the help file says, there isnt any added regeneration given by lichdom. I imagine in both cases they're mistaken for viscanti regeneration on taint/wasteland, which cant apply to Lichdom arguments.
Drago2005-01-01 07:05:11
If lichform didn't give you -2 int and str (which is a -huge- downside for nihilists, as our damage is fairly weak as is) during the day, so it just reset it to your base int/str, it'd be a lot better and more worth it.
Even better would be touch actually doing something useful *shrug* I'll probably look through all of the stuff above and detail some envoy report on it.
Also, lichdom does give a -small- regeneration amount, as I've noticed it bashing sewer eels in magnagora's sewers, which aren't tainted. It regens about half of what the enchantment does.
Even better would be touch actually doing something useful *shrug* I'll probably look through all of the stuff above and detail some envoy report on it.
Also, lichdom does give a -small- regeneration amount, as I've noticed it bashing sewer eels in magnagora's sewers, which aren't tainted. It regens about half of what the enchantment does.
Daevos2005-01-01 07:07:04
Never seen this regeneration you speak of.
