Looks good to me. I was asleep at the time, but the whole sanctuary deal makes all the difference.

Holy shit heh, I loved Rhysus suggestion of debating, but I never expected it to be implemented this fast, I think this is kind of a milestone in the world of muds...kuddos to Rhysus for developping it and to the divine for implementing it, must have been some intense coding.

actually Laetitia doesn't balance is out of serenwildes favour. Laetitia is pretty evenly matched by trueheart/lightning/sun.

But I like the change, a real viable PvP mechanic without PK.

Also remember that Serenwilders don't get an ability to boost their charisma stat (well excluding a VERY limited number of serenguard)

Keep in mind only half the people can use the facepaints, and I'm pretty sure they're personal-use only. Plus they're master+. Compared to laetitia, which can be used by 2/3rds of people, is a novice skill, and is stackable on the same person.

You also forgot moonlight, which gives a rather slow ego regeneration, but works for all moon/staggers in the room and lasts until dawn the next day.

Just things to be aware of.

I was just stating some things... you are just backing up my point that it is pretty balanced between the different cities/commune

I wasn't trying to do either, just pointing out some things you missed. I think the laetitia actually comes out on top by a little, but it is fairly balanced, yeah.

from my experience most influencers need to chanters to stay at full ego, I need one chanter and my face points, that sort of the basis I was comparing them on

Yeah, so the facepaints are then equivalent to one chanter. Thing is, you can only have one facepaints, whereas city people can have as many chanters as they have celestine/nihilist novices and not-exactly-massively-skilled ur'guard/paladins. So if the alliance with Celest were to break up and Serenwilde not to have any amount of chanters, we'd only have the equivalent of one chanter each, the facepaints. And that only applies to less than half the influencers. Plus moonlight, which may be equivalent to another chanter for everyone.

yes but lightning makes us influence a LOT faster on top. In the end I think its probably very even.

I'm a tae'dae I'm from magnagora... I love this.

I've always felt that all my disatavatages as a tae'dae end up being sorted out by our high charisma, which means I can both fight and influence if need be.

Though the idea of seeing daganev debate will be funny. Just sad I had to miss this round.

Does debating work the same way as regular influencing where it costs ego to attack as well as losing ego when defending?


Also, I often influence alone and only get a chanter when fighting the much larger denizens.

This is a good point. If you get in more successful debate wins then you will have more debating strength than your opponent, which makes you do more damage. Faster balance means more chances of getting a successful debate win. I believe most, or at least many, battles will be determined by whomever gets the highest debating strength.

Though some may believe due to the zero-sum nature of each round (assuming all modifiers on both sides being equal, etc.) makes the wins and refutations you get arbitrarily random, I would say that's not the case. I encourage the math nerd players out there to find a book on game theory to figure out how to adjust your debates and mindsets in general, and then how to adjust them after gathering a sample set of data on how your opponent is using them. You actually can stack things in your favour if you watch what your opponent does and he's not using optimal strategy in either offense or defense.

Surely us math nerd players know all about game theory anyway? ^_~ Basic topic at school that was. It'll take a little practise, but it shouldn't be too hard to come up with an otpimal solution...

Huh, I haven't done that in like 4 years, I forget it all now. Maybe we'll do it again in A level. Or in the second module of AS.

I like the change!



*muhahaha*



And I'm pretty confident I've found the saddle points for the debate system as its currently set up already, so I'll have to test that out and find the maxmin and minmax strategies soon.

And Erion, funny you should note that on Psycombat, in the original post where I proposed this idea I basically referenced it directly, saying "Imagine a Psycombat that actually MATTERED."

Imagine no longer!


Now if everyone would just listen to me more often...*wink*

Stuuupid. Excuse me, enemy, let's stop fighting a second and have a debate.

Stuuuupid.

Bah, I missed the Dairuchi influencing. Not that Guido can enter any contested village for more than 5 seconds without being slaughtered.

One question; I've got the impression that debate strength carries over from debate to debate, always growing. Dosen't that mean that it is possible for a handful of people to get so strong that they can just enter a room and out-debate 5 people in as long as it takes to regain balance 5 times, and lay waste to the opposition? Also, once everyone has reached a moderate level of debate strength, it will be impossible for new players to get in on the influencing. They'll be shut down the instant they enter the village.

Village influencing isn't supposed to be a battle in the first place.

No. When you engage someone in a debate, you and that person are locked in on each other. If both sides go idle then after a while the debate will timeout and clear everything, including your debate strength.

Think of it like this. Suppose there is a televised presidential debate between two candidates: Jefferson and Adams. And there are two debates scheduled.

The first debate is on domestic policy. Adams is incapable of refuting what Jefferson says on federalism, and anything Adams puts out there on punishing domestic sedition gets easily countered by Jefferson's rhetoric. This builds more and more credibility for Jefferson as the event goes on and so, even if he doesn't make super strong points later in the debate, he can still ride on the momentum of his past rhetorical victories to make his points stronger.

Then day 2 of the debates comes along where they discuss foreign policy. It's a whole new debate; the excitement of the last one has died down and all the points in the old one do not pertain to the new discussion. Jefferson's points on domestic federalism would give no strength in a discussion focused on import tarriffs and possible war with France and England. Thus the momentum Jefferson built up in the first debate would have no bearing in how well he debates Adams in the second debate.

Ouch, I just saw someone throw up their arms and curse after losing a debate, "obviously too spastic to engage in civilised debate." That was a low one.

My only charecter who can Influence has no city, order, clans, or guild.

I feel so lonely. I've seen the concept, love the concept...and I can't use it.