Erion's probably a pretty good example for most evil, yea . The sudden jumping Elaria with three Mags was sooo unexpected. Just chatting to Akraasiel at the time. Daevos would also be a good example from his actions, but we don't really hear enough words from him, so it's difficult to say evil or not. Erion probably beats him though because he speaks, and he shows a twisted dedication for the Light where he'll do anything. Don't think I could ever roleplay that, credit to you for it.

Kudos! KUUUUDOOOOSSSSSS (to Erion, that is)

Use your evilness to whip Marlow into finishing work!

I can't resist my urge...yes this is out of topic...but Etanru, your square-fish avatar is so cooool. Okay I'm done.

I actually expected Erion to go for Terentia as She is supposed to be the harsher, rougher side of the Light. Not all sparkly and loving, but a warrior, a crusader willing to get Her hands dirty for the greater good.

Funny how things turn out.

Since someone went along and pointed out the "oldskool" AD&D evil guidelines, as well as Erion's attempt to say that his character was Neutral Evil, we'll whip out the guidelines for the differing degrees of evil that are commonly associated with AD&D, and perhaps even some examples...

Chaotic Evil- The epitome of evilness. Psychotic, cruel, brutal. Those are just some of the words you could use to describe a chaotic evil person. They're basically super nasty SOB's that have little to no regard for anyone but themselves. They'll slit your throat while you sleep on a whim, or kill you simply because they're bored, or they wanted to hear you squeal like a pig. They'll hurt you simply because they enjoy inflicting pain, and squish a squirrel under their boot just because they always wanted to know what a squirrel being squished under a boot would sound like.

Examples in Lusternia of a Chaotic Evil person: If you can think of anyone who fits this description, then feel free to say so.

Lawful Evil- Lawful Evil doesn't exactly mean you're evil per se, but it's usually the case. The main difference between Lawful Evil and Chaotic Evil, is that Lawful Evil people understand the pecking order, and generally abide by it. Whereas if you had a city full of Chaotic Evil people, you'd pretty much have anarchy, since no one wants to follow anyone else, and only through brutal suppression could you even get them to do jack squat, it wouldn't last long, since first chance they got they'd try to kill you and take control, or just run away. Lawful Evil people will work towards a common goal, and will obey instructions. Of course, if the opportunity arises where they can further themselves, they'll take it, but the key difference is that they are willing to work and function AS A GROUP towards a common goal.

Examples in Lusternia of a Lawful Evil person: Magnagora.

Neutral Evil- Basically a Neutral Evil person is you're typical, self serving, bastard. Their personal gains come first and foremost. They might be part of a larger, more structured society, but they're generally only there because either A) It suits their personal gains to assist, and in turn be assisted by, the larger society. Or Because they're too scared to leave. They're also the more subtle, reserved kind of evil, much like Lawful Evil, except that they dislike following the established leadership, BUT, unlike Chaotic Evil, they will do so if necessity dictates that they need to do it. They will assist others if it benefits them to do so, and usually only if it's in their best interests. They have their own personal agenda, which takes priority over everything else.

Examples in Lusternia of a Neutral Evil person: Erion, Guido, Visaeris? (might even be able to stick him in Chaotic Evil perhaps?)

Voila. For those of you who couldn't really understand what was defined as "evil" I hope that gives you some guidelines as to what generally classifies someone as "evil". And if I'm wrong? Meh.

As for who I think is the most evil person in Lusternia, I'd actually go out on a limb and perhaps say Aris, when he was a Celestine, simply because he was supposed to be part of a goodly priestish organisation, and had no qualms about killing any and all Magnagorans he could find, for no other reason than because he could kill them, even if they'd never actually harmed Celest in any way. And I'm not tryin to say he was wrong in doing it, but those actions in a "good" city stick out far more than the actions of most Magnagorans, simply because they're already in an "evil" city, so it's less noticable when they do "evil" things.

Erion was very much Chaotic Evil, when he was a Celestine. He'd never admit it, and he was being truthful when he said he would slaughter anything for the Light, but he loved the bite of steel, and still does. He covered his taste for destruction with a ferverent devotion to the Light. Now, without the Light, it's just become a desire to see Celest and the Seren get delt blows. The taste for blood is always there, but he's often been seen helping Magnagoran (A city he's still enemied to) for personal gain.

Erion and Visaeris are borderline Nuetral-Evil and Chaotic-Evil.

And, as to the Terentia thing. Probably, post-Celest's treatment, he would have followed her. But after he'd left Celest, and even at the end of it, he'd started getting to know Visaeris. Erion reacted much as I would have in his situation; especially given he's had no great fear of divine, his only real divine-mortal interaction being the Lady Isune (Yea, real scary) and Lord Lacostian, who's his Divine patron, and was adressed with respect but also casually, in a more private situation. So he's no real feeling as to the true power of a divine, he just views them as overwhelmingly powerful beings.

And Valek is SO neutral evil. And if a one of you wishes to argue otherwise, well. I'll give you a poisoned popsicle.

Valek...not...completely...chaotic and random...?

You sure we're thinking of the same people there Erion?

Guido swings all over the evil spectrum, although neutral is more common, yes. But that is what we call 'insanity'.

Valek's not completely chaotic and random. It might seem that way, but there's always a purpouse behind it. Then again, the Chaos Theory, etc.

No, he's Neutral. Typical, self-serving bastard. He fits it to a 'T'.

And, as far as the characters listed heresofar as "Evil", and pointed at a lot, Erion, Guido, Visaeris. We are pretty much all over the place. I think what Guido says goes for Visaeris as well (nuetral being most common), and Erion, too.

Rexali is borderline lawful evil, neutral evil. And I don't believe Magnagora is inherently evil at all. One who wishes to protect and further the taint, but isn't super-bloodthirsty, might be lawful good

And it was two mags! Gol and Zhaine!

Ooo, I have a new catagory!

MYSTERIOUSLY NEUTRAL AND SHIFTY POSSIBLY BORDERING ON EVIL!

That'd be where Etanru'd fall, probably. Same with Marlow.


Sugary goodness...mmm....

Totally agreed. Too many people here assume that the Light means they have to be Lawful Good, and Magnagora meaning any of the three states of Evil. Although Magnagora has, for the most part, taken up the facade of Lawful Evil, with the exception of those in leadership positions, although such things are really circumstantial and dependant on the view-point...

Yay for Mary. Where'd she go anyway?

No idea!

Where does, "If you don't do what I say, I will go join the enemy and use their overpowerd skills to level your city" fit?

If thats neutral evil then ummm ok. but I would put that as chaotic evil.

thats a rough rumored summary of a conversation Valek had with the city.
Mind you I got it from a friend of a friend of a friend of a person who was there. But they don't go around suggesting that the Pope said something like that.

Damn Pope. I always knew he was plotting against Valek and co. Those old cripples who murmur in like seven different languages are always the guilty party.

People like things to be put into catagories.

You do it when you see someone with black hair, make-up and a trenchcoat. You label them a "goth". You see someone with a skateboard and wearing their cap in a stupid fashion, you call them a "skater".

If you put evil into catagories, it makes it easier to say "I'm this" or "He's that". Of course, when you give people catagories to choose from, SUDDENLY they don't want catagories any more

I label Magnagora as Evil, but a lawful sort of evil, because it's goals are in direct opposition to almost everything else in the Basin. They seek to further the spread of the taint, which is detrimental to the rest of the world. If you seek to spread the taint, but are not super bloodthirsty, it would still make you evil in a technical sense, because the Taint, as a general rule, is in and of itself considered "evil". That and the fact evilness is also determined by society for the most part. Take a Magnagoran who uses diplomatic and peaceful resolutions to achieve the goals of the city, as opposed to Magnagora's general use of force. That person is still considering themself a part of the city, and assisting in it's goals, they just aren't using the commonly associated method (physical might) to achieve them.

Good people can't survive in an evil society, and vice versa. That's why Erion got the boot from Celest, because his way of doing things wasn't considered what was commonly associated as "acceptable behaviour". If you violate laws within your society, and "go against the grain" there will be repurcussions, whereas in a different society, those laws might not even exist, or be considered acceptable behaviour, and therefore you won't get into trouble.

That's what makes Magnagora "evil". The code of behaviour within it allows for actions that, in other societies (Celest and Serenwilde) would get you kicked out.

And going all over the evil spectrum isn't considered Neutral Evil. It's considered chaotic. Guido doesn't go killing anyone and everyone because he's too weak to do it. I bet if Guido was as powerful as Daevos or Valek, he'd be a killing machine

And Valek is...well...he's Valek. I'd actually throw him in the insane catagory, since his ooc spurts are, according to the divine, considered insanity. He kills people because he can, but also possesses a twisted sense of morals and honour. So, following the insanity path, he's Lawful Evil, but slipping into a Chaotic Evil style when he has his (more frequently occuring) bouts of spontaneous insanity. (RP coverup right there folks)

What all this means?

Exactly.

I'm more eviller than yooou.