Exerpt or whatever:



So excorable should do more to everything that isnt living.... but so far we are getting none of that most things are resistant to it and you are saying its not likely any of it will become weak to it. So far this is sounding like it was nothing but a huge mistake given most nothing resists the two new damage types, they only seem to help one "side" (city really), and its a HUGE advantage in most every single area. Or I am misunderstanding and theres an automatic damage buff to excorable damage against anything without a line against it?

Can we just remove the new types if there is no plans to make things balanced? I know you said "but catacombs and kephera" however those compare in no way to the areas you can get serious experience which are all weak to divinus... heavily.

One last thing, we added a new damage attack to bards (of mixed strengths, divinus is HUGE advantage and the rest are shafted) a caster guild that was probably among the best bashers (less damage than staff I believe but were rather fast). But still the guilds who paid for their damgae mods got the least ability to do more Damage? Can we make damage runes cheaper and allow them to swap with eachother? Or make it so you can RUNE ATTUNE TO ? Maybe with a range based on the rune.. like... RUNE OF THE SUPPLICANT (divinus|fire) OF THE SCOURGE (excorable|cold) OF NATURE (poison|asphyxiation) or somethin of that nature if not just like a solid swap to choice? Could maybe make runes cost 250 norm and 500 for shifters or somethin? Just some ideas because as an "Evil" monk it looks like I pretty much got shafted in all areas, and all the guilds that got a buff in Mag already could outbash me.

- Malarious

Ok, so heres a table of things so far....
Slight weakness/resistance = 1
Moderate = 2
Terrible/Great = 3
Invulnerable is not tracked but most "high undead" are immune.

CODE

Weaknesses
Levels of weakness            Total mobs with weakness
Total Cutting    32        Total Cutting    21
Total Blunt            13        Total Blunt            9
Total Magic    15        Total Magic    9
Total Fire            30        Total Fire            19
Total Cold            12        Total Cold            10
Total Electric    13        Total Electric    8
Total Psychic    4        Total Psychic    2
Total Asphyx    5        Total Asphyx    5
Total Poison    7        Total Poison    5
Total Excor    2        Total Excor    1
Total Divinus    71        Total Divinus    30

Resists
Levels of resist            Total mobs with resist
Total Cutting    29        Total Cutting    18
Total Blunt            38        Total Blunt            28
Total Magic    39        Total Magic    28
Total Fire            16        Total Fire            12
Total Cold            30        Total Cold            23
Total Electric    11        Total Electric    7
Total Psychic    21        Total Psychic    13
Total Asphyx    8        Total Asphyx    6
Total Poison    35        Total Poison    20
Total Excor    55        Total Excor    30
Total Divinus    0        Total Divinus    0

So tons of weakness to divinus, no resistance. Then Magic/Blunt are most resisted (tied for mob count). This isnt looking good.

There should be dmp made available (purchasable) for the two new types of damage, I agree.
Everyone in the game gets at least 25 dmp to electricty from proofing and galvanism, which isn't a big investment. Everyone in the game has access to 6 poison dmp, at trans resilience.

I noticed the divinus/excorable thing, some of this is pretty glaringly unbalanced from our side of things.

What? You mean everything being excruciatingly weak to divinus, to the point where a celestine novice barely out of the portal can hold aloft their mighty fist of Light and fell the mighty beast within the gullet of the Soulless, is NOT balanced? Surely you jest, Enyalida

...Yes, because that Celestine novice is so damn tanky to survive, and they'll be outputting -so- much damage that it makes little children cry.
There's really no need to be over exaggerating. Yes, a lot of end game bashing area mobs have weaknesses to Divinus damage type, but it is not just Celest(Celestines and Cantors), that get Divinus damage, any Moon user gets it, SS get it, Researchers get it. It may not be full 100% Divinus, but it's still Divinus damage.

It's also only mechanically available to half of the game!

Which is better than "1/6" of the game. Two people so far have said that all the Divinus weaknesses caters to Celestines/Celest, when it really doesn't. And people saying that only Celestines/Celest have the advantage in end game bashing is really annoying.

You did not say we were wrong about there being a huge advantage, merely you dislike that we claim its only celest. Am I correct?

Seeing as how a lot of mobs have excorable resist, in terms of Divinus/Excorable, yes it seems Divinus wins for end game bashing areas. But people are forgetting that those aren't the only damage types. Some people may be screwed in certain aspects, but as Eventru has said, more changes are forthcoming.

It's time to furiously protest. Who's with me?

Except that the bulk of all high-level mobs are weak to Divinus, which means that 100% Divinus attacks (and those attacks only) win on every single mob type. Whereas everyone else has to spend their time trying to figure out and make decisions on other stuff, Divinus users can just merrily go after whatever without a concern, because not only is there no resistance to it, pretty much everything will take extra damage.

That's the imbalance here. One attack has a bonus (or is neutral) to all end-game bashing (and, well, everything else too).

And even if something does go in with excorable weaknesses, I imagine it will do Divinus damage, making it unhealthy to bash anyways given lack of Divinus damage reduction.

Even further, Muud insanity rate is still nuts given how long it takes to go through the place.

There's a difference between giving a bonus / no penalty to a portion of the game, and giving said penalty to everyone else; Divinus users do not have to 'make choices' because they have no problems with anything resisting them.

The more damage resistances I see going in, the tougher it is to see a balanced outcome; at this point it feels like it's going to take RL years of development to come out with enough 'good' things to counter all of the undead and soulless-touched big baddies.

Edit: Revan, big red text has historically done nothing to persuade Lusternian administration. Ever.

Don't forget about those divinus/excorable weapon runes!

I just wanted to utilize my .gif to its full potential

The only Serenwilde guild which benefits from divinus bashing is Moondancers. Been going through the astral and undead creatures for Barrin trying to work out when he should use Spiritchord (75% cold, 25% divinus) instead of his normal magical attack and it's actually hard to tell on a lot of them, because they're both resistant to cold and weak to divinus. Yes, Hartstone does do better than a lot of guilds on Astral, but it has nothing to do with divinus, which we don't have. Apparently cutting/blunt and electrical is just a good combination.

So saying half the basin benefits from divinus and half doesn't is inaccurate, it's less than half.

That's not true. Serenguard have access to divinus just as easily as Moondancers. Granted, they may not use it due to low int, but it is there.

Likewise, Institute have access to divinus, so the option is there - 3/6 orgs have access to divinus bashing.

I note that's not an actual argument, because that infers 1/3 of the game can't bash (effectively) at all - however there are other weaknesses available that everyone can exploit. Some may have more options than others.

As I've said before, all that undead goodness is just the state of Lusternia. That won't change - undeath and taint is a good chunk of the Basin of Life, at least a quarter (if not more). There won't suddenly be angels wandering around the Teeth so the Nihilists can go get their grind on.

I want to note, that this is in fact a /downgrade/ from where things were before, for Celestines - barring Astral and Muud, all that undead goodness has always been there and has always been primo bashing ground for Celestines. Now they do less damage vs undead (slightly) but they do do more against all soulless-touched entities.

Nothing is going to change the fact that the Soulless are a huge part of Lusternia, while divine entities (gods, fae, angels) do not have much presence on Lusternia outside of a few pockets.

That's just the breaks. While they get better bashing, you get influencing, quests, etc that they can't/won't - so everything goes in circles.

As I've said, we'll probably see more, in time, that 'balances out' - but will excorable energy weaknesses be as prevalent as divinus?

No, I'd be lying if I said thought it would be.

Conversely, no archetype with excorable energy is limited to solely that type for bashing, so they have that going for them.



That's not true.

It's actually made me really feel the need to step out of the argument.

Once red text and signatures come into the equation, it's clear people are too hyped up and that's when I feel it's necessary I back out of the discussion altogether.

It rather suggests people are up against their walls and discussing it is only going to inflame passions, so that is, indeed, my end point.

Sorry.

Serenguard do not benefit from Moonfire, really. We already have Moonburst that we don't use. I believe that was Qistrel's point. We have the option but not the incentive.

Just because more people have access to it doesn't make it balanced either. I agree with the above, it seems silly that the only people with a real full divinus attack are Institute and Celestines. 75% cold 25% divinus does not constitute a divinus attack for me. Neither does 50% fire 50% divinus, though that's better. I'm glad for nice new damage attacks, but someo seem to have substantially nicer new damage attacks.
You say that those with excorable aren't restricted to using it, they have their old choice still, but so do divinus users. That would solve the issue of exco being worse then old attacks, it does nothing to solve the problem of "half the game gets the choice between normal and darn great, the other half gets the choice between normal and meh".

If everyone is really hyped up about something, that shows that it's a big issue that impacts them that they care about. If you pushed through nerfs to druids, you can bet I'd be ALL OVER the forums and envoys, because that's something that is of major concern to me, that I have stock invested in, and that would screw up the game for me. If I had a serious issue that I thought warranted bold red text, I'd flat out quit if it was ignored on the grounds that I (and many others) felt it needed some sort of addressing. When I'm trying to enflame passions, it's because I see that as the only way to get my message across to the admins. If I'm up against my 'wall', it's because something has been done to push me to the point of breaking on a particular issue, which is an issue in and of itself. Not everything is a game breaker, but it happens on occasion. Honestly, even if it's not true, it feels like this wall thing happens more from the admins then from players anyways. My posterchild for that is the way tattoo designing was originally designed, and how much arguing up and down it took from everyone on the forums to get the eventual change through, massively cutting down on design bloat.

Everyone I've showed the dmp tables points out the divinus thing, and with uncertain numbers (that seem on the low end, from what I can tell) for excorable damage boosting, and multiple resistances to counter it across the board, it doesn't look like an even boost at all. Your assurances that this is something that will never change do nothing in the way of alleviating that concern, they heighten it. This isn't a hugebig terrible issue, but it's EXTREMLY disheartening to be brushed off. I feel like you're wrong on a few counts here, though it's more not actually playing through the game more then anything else.


All of that said: Reistances to divinus and excorable need to be available by purchase, as a proofing or some other method, like a potion. I believe that no one is resistant to divinus currently? Similarly, it only seems fair (-ish) to let there be weapon runes for these types. They still have to pay.

I'd like to point out that nobody in Gaudiguch has access to excorable or divinus attacks. So we get the short end of the straw there.

Idea: Make domoth creatures have a weakness to excorable.

Hmm, good idea!!

*cue whining about Glom/Mag/Gaudi being OP when it comes to domoths and how life is unfair*

I actually would prefer if elem runes got changed back to 50% change, exco/divinus runes got added, or all elemental runes got consolidated into one super rune that you can tune whilst also adding the exco/divinus types to it as well.

Otherwise, I'd also be down with nightkiss, drawdown, deathweapon, and righteousarms to change another 33% of a weapon's damage into divinus/excoro.