That's what I said. I went through both astral and the undead list. I even went and asked Serenguard if they used Moonburst/fire so I didn't say something that wasn't true.

There's more going on here than just the divinus stuff. The mere fact that Spiritsingers do not have an advantage despite doing divinus, and that Hartstone do have an advantage despite not having divinus shows that the types and damage percentages of skills can be tweaked around until the divinus thing is not imbalanced, without having to remove divinus weakness from Evil Stuff.

I think the issue arises more when you consider the types in their absolute forms, which do actually crop up. I think that making all non-resistant mobs slightly weak to excoro would go a long way to helping, though the charts for high level bashing areas (http://wiki.lusternia.com/NPC_Resistances) that have been coming out so far are still disheartening. Any time excorable + x type is good, it's better with divinus. Any time that particular combination is bad for divinus, it's worse for excorable. Of the combinations that actually occur, it looks like on astral 5/11 spheres are good for div/cold, 6/11 are good for fire/div whereas the excorable pairing aside from cold (poison) only has three spheres, and the excorable damage is three stages below the divinus damage. I assume that other trends will pop up, and be dealt with, but I feel the div/exco thing will be much much harder to mess with (fix) because of the way they were set up.

Okays, It just seemed the fastest way to handle it! No one would currently notice if excoro damage was removed after all.



For this I am grateful. Still hoping for my runes not feeling like I paid 500 credits for something everyone else now gets free. And that is my complaint with tuning style skills.. being able to adjust what you do not only in PvE (to maximize damage) but in PvP. I want that, and I paid for a far worse version of it.



Fixed

P.S. <3 u Estarra

If you can't use your symbol for bashing, you shouldn't be able to use demonweb (or radiance).

Isn't that unfair? Guardians are already the weakest bashing archetype in the game, and lose their combative abilities pretty much entirely when the Supernals/DLs die - having to resort to cosmicfire on top of that seems excessive.

I can see where you're coming from here, but do keep in mind that you don't need to work to renew pacts/regain symbol anymore - it's just inactive until the corresponding Supernal/DL is revived. Which is why I'm not really bothered by an overall buff for the Celestines. Nihilists, though... well, guess we'll see how poison/psychic works out in the long run?

Woah woah. I can see where you're coming from with Demonweb big E, since the attack line explicitly references symbol, but radiance was in the game even before symbols. Don't take away the poor fishes' super awesome anti-undead attack!

With the right group (demi+ so people can hold their weight) astral trumps anywhere else in the game by quite a bit, and you can get so many more mobs than you can in hives or tunnels.

So yeah I'll agree with the fact that it's not the one super bashing area all of a sudden, but it has been since the change (insanity, mobs buffed)

You bash elsewhere for gold, sure, but the essence does not compare

I agree that instantly regaining pacts/pledges upon revival has eased the issue significantly, but it still presents an issue that no other archetype has to deal with. (With the exception of Wiccans - who only lose a max of three fae, if their avatars die, and retain their bashing ability anyway.) Losing symbols makes sense from a design standpoint - but please, please let guardians retain their demonweb/radiance (which, as Razenth pointed out, predates symbols anyway). If that necessitates rewriting the demonweb message, hell, I'll whip something up for it. (I concur with the people saying divinus is presently too powerful, though, and I'm a Celestine and so stand to benefit the most from it.)


Plus conglute massively lessens the danger for non-Demis, comparative to the UV. Astral's always been a top-notch bashing area, though for different reasons through the ages. (At the beginning of the game the gold drops were crazy, I recall.)

We removed Radiance, and introduced an entirely different skill called Radiance that, likewise, requires a symbol.

They were intended to compliment symbol - with your supernal of choice dead, you still must fall back to cosmicfire for bashing, as has always been the case.

Much love old friend!

Clearly Destruction should be changed to pure Divinus damage.

This thread makes me miss knight, if only because cutting/blunt is something every org basically loves/hates in equal measure.

Nothing in particular should be weak to exco. damage. Why? Because effectively everything is slightly weak to it. Eventru brought this up, but people like to sweep it under the rug in favor of "omg more things are weak to Div damage". Well, yeah, to be fair over all, more things HAVE to be.

Regarding Keph, they have a poison weakness. Both mag and glom have solid methods of poison damage. If there's any complaint to be had regarding the undervault, its probably that mag/glom have the better gold pinata.

Actually, I think it's fairly even, now. You should be able to sell worms (have been for a while) but nobody seems to know that.

It's been pointed out that this only applies to PLAYER characters, not mobs. So, no, nothing's been swept under the rug in regard to bashing.

Yep, that's just plain not true in PvE.

Is anybody using the table I created?

Not sure how up to date it is. I never really used it, but here.

You can view it here.

The zip archive contains an Open Document Spreadsheet file.

Is it bad that I check all these tables the same way?

I look for the divinus column an check for being green or red, thats the "weak to" column.

No mobs weak to excorable, none resist divinus. Why is it 500 credits to get 1/3rd damage that I cannot then change as I go like others?

I am in full support of a bashing review, I equally challenge anyone to present hard data about the myths that monks are the best. Tuning has given a slight edge to staffs, and damageshift a huge edge. If my first hit is lethal I get the extra crit times that hit (yay X * 200 damage) vs staff ( X * 1000). Just throwing that out there.

Malarious:

No mobs weak to excorable, none resist divinus. Why is it 500 credits to get 1/3rd damage that I cannot then change as I go like others?

Or why do warriors/monks only have access to the worst two damage types in the game unless they pay said credits when everyone else has at least two bashing attacks with more desirable damage types?

The snow phoenixes in Icewynd are weak against excorable and resistant to divinus.