foolofsound:

I'm glad you are considering this issue, brought to you by your customers, in a mature, helpful manner.

As I'm sure you are aware, we meant that in the case that RP and mechanics are at odds, the RP should be changed in order to preserve balanced mechanics.

I'm merely employing the same argument you have. Indeed, the crux of the argument is that many things are undead/soullessy and thus have excorable resistances.

So the proposed solution (by you included) is to 'change the roleplay'. So your solution is thus 'make undead weak to excorable'. I really don't know any other way you mean to make your argument, sans 'make everything resistant to divinus' - which is terribly silly. Then again, so is the argument of 'this is a roleplaying game, roleplay should be changed to make room for mechanics'. I mostly am merely amused at the split perception - it wasn't long ago that everyone on the 'good' side complained that all the high level areas/quests were 'evil' or 'tainted'. While efforts have certainly been made to rectify that (Project Eternity, Cloadahi Cay, the Imperial Repository, St. Gathlyn's Orphanage), such projects cannot be done over night (indeed, they can take many months) - so while I may not be unsympathetic to the quantity of divinus-weak mobiles, I can only laugh at the irony. Once it was "The world is dark and twisty, of course most of the areas and quests will be evil!", but it's shifted dramatically into, "The world is dark and twisty, you need to change the roleplay so that we can have another advantage!". Were the game instead possessed with high-and-lighty areas and lots of powerful fae spirits, there would be plenty of excorable bashing grounds - but I would eat my expansive collection of footwear if players didn't complain there weren't enough 'evil' quests for them to partake in.

As well, you're trying to argue that 'mechanics should always trump roleplay' to someone who has spent four years focusing on every minutae of roleplay and the storyline and doing everything they can to ensure everything aligns properly. While I recognize that it is, indeed, 'the internet', you should learn your audience before attempting to argue or convince them of something.

That said, you clearly find my amusement at your argument insulting, so I'll bow out of the conversation entirely. I certainly have no reason to stay in it, since you've been employing sarcasm and condescension whenever this topic (and others you disagree with) arises, you act as though I've stabbed your cat at the faintest inkling at anything that tastes a bit irony.

I'm perfectly content to focus on things far more interesting and productive than scouring the mobile database for mobs that lack resistances/weaknesses that would logically be weak to excorable (and then rectifying that), or work on other projects that might rectify the perceived disparity, versus attempting to engage with unpleasant and aggressive individuals on the forums.

Eventru has only one mode: troll (and sleep). Just as Sior programmed him.

Eventru:

...since you've been employing sarcasm and condescension whenever this topic (and others you disagree with) arises, you act as though I've stabbed your cat at the faintest inkling at anything that tastes a bit irony.

...versus attempting to engage with unpleasant and aggressive individuals on the forums.

Call me immature but...
Pot. Kettle. Black.

Frankly, if you aren't going to make an attempt to open a helpful dialogue, feel free to not respond. The discussion was fairly civil before you entered.

foolofsound:

Call me immature but...
Pot. Kettle. Black.

Frankly, if you aren't going to make an attempt to open a helpful dialogue, feel free to not respond. The discussion was fairly civil before you entered.

I'm always happy to engage in an open and helpful dialogue, but you rarely seem interested in either.

I'll be certain to pass on your complaints, though, about damage resistance in mobiles.

You've definitely won some friends to side with you on this argument!

Eventru:

I'll be certain to pass on your complaints, though, about damage resistance in mobiles.

Wonderful! Thank you for your continued efforts in improving the game!

I didn't complain about "it all being evil" for bashables. My Celestine had a great time of it, radiance was blissfully OP as could be for hunting. My celestine could outbash my monk in areas like shallach, catacombs, etc. Now radiance base damage seems to have been reduced, not sure if it works on non undead mobs now though.

And this is citizens warning to both of you! :P

Tsk tsk tsk

I agree, we both overstepped our respective bounds.

My point is, it doesn't make sense for the Traitors to have pursued excoroble power, even if it would indeed strengthen them, if their enemies would be highly resistant to said power.

What is Excoroble damage in any case, as in, what is it's mode of causing harm? Is it some sort of entropic force, like negative energy in DnD? If so, is it a spiritual or physical entropy? I feel that these distinctions are important for establishing appropriate damage modifiers.

Divinus is the essence of the Elder Gods - creations of Dynara, but with the influence of the Unnamed Son ('souls'). Excoroperditio is the essence of the primal gods - still creations of Dynara, but were soulless. We can assume that the lack-of-'soul' of excoro is what makes it harmful to divinus. It's not 'negative energy' exactly, since 'negative' would the the complete absence of creation (which is what Magnora personified).

So if it is "lack of soul" that sears that which has one would you say it is necromantic energy (which is why the respective guilds have it)? While Divinus is an energy of creation?

So in other words, Excoro is directly damaging the soul of the target? OK. What then is Divinus damage doing? How does this "Elder God Energy" harm creatures, particularly if it is a creative energy?

You could argue that cancer is the result of unchecked growth, sooo...

Opposites always end up in one of two states, completely destroyed, or a neutral version of itself. Divinus and Excorable together do not blend, they obliterate. So if excorable is searing the very soul of the thing, you can think of divinus and "purifying" the necromantic energy? When your flesh tries to dissolve (seperating out the bad stuff) it tends to hurt more. If you are not excorable, and are in fact like fae with pure energy the whole way, it is hard to "purify" you hence resistance.

Divinus is the essence of the Elder Gods - creations of Dynara, but with the influence of the Unnamed Son ('souls'). Excoroperditio is the essence of the primal gods - still creations of Dynara, but were soulless. We can assume that the lack-of-'soul' of excoro is what makes it harmful to divinus. It's not 'negative energy' exactly, since 'negative' would the the complete absence of creation (which is what Magnora personified).


That answered so many personal rp questions. :)

This is why we put Alacardael on the spot fo Zvoltz >:)

Eventru:

So the proposed solution (by you included) is to 'change the roleplay'. So your solution is thus 'make undead weak to excorable'. I really don't know any other way you mean to make your argument, sans 'make everything resistant to divinus' - which is terribly silly. Then again, so is the argument of 'this is a roleplaying game, roleplay should be changed to make room for mechanics'. I mostly am merely amused at the split perception - it wasn't long ago that everyone on the 'good' side complained that all the high level areas/quests were 'evil' or 'tainted'. While efforts have certainly been made to rectify that (Project Eternity, Cloadahi Cay, the Imperial Repository, St. Gathlyn's Orphanage), such projects cannot be done over night (indeed, they can take many months) - so while I may not be unsympathetic to the quantity of divinus-weak mobiles, I can only laugh at the irony. Once it was "The world is dark and twisty, of course most of the areas and quests will be evil!", but it's shifted dramatically into, "The world is dark and twisty, you need to change the roleplay so that we can have another advantage!". Were the game instead possessed with high-and-lighty areas and lots of powerful fae spirits, there would be plenty of excorable bashing grounds - but I would eat my expansive collection of footwear if players didn't complain there weren't enough 'evil' quests for them to partake in.

I think the irony is that you were one of the most vocal whiners against the numerous evil/tainty quests :P

The problem I still have is, lets say Exco is improved and everything on astral is made vulnerable to it.

Except against the majority of the player base, it's better. Div is strong against a relatively small subset of the playerbase, restricted largely to one org, with a token representation in a second. Exco hits every other player character in the game for more damage than an otherwise equivalent Div source.

So suddenly, that's balanced? It seems more a case of "this will be balanced when I what I have is better."

The only way this ends is if the advantages of both are removed, and they're essentially two identical sides of some "cosmic" themed damage. I'm not suggesting that, but some of the solutions here just wind up making div the worse of the two, which doesn't solve the problem, it just empties one trash bin into their neighbor's yard.

Have you actually checked the damage difference between Excoro and non-Excoro attacks? At minimum DMP (no defs up), I allowed a Nihilist to hit me with both Demonweb and Symbol; Symbol did mildly more damage, about 6%; hardly enough to justify making the type significantly worse for high end bashing.

In reality, the PvP difference is rather small, while the PvE difference is very large. Both types are top tier damage types in PvP; I don't think that adding or changing mobs to make the types more equitable for bashing is going to make Divinus trash, like you seem to be suggesting.

Eventru:

So the proposed solution (by you included) is to 'change the roleplay'. So your solution is thus 'make undead weak to excorable'. I really don't know any other way you mean to make your argument, sans 'make everything resistant to divinus' - which is terribly silly.

Why is this terribly silly?

By the roleplay and implementation of the abilities, everything that is not weak to Divinus should be resistant to it. It's not supposed to have full effect on living non-Soullessy-stuff!

That's every bit as much a part of the design as almost all the good hunting being Divinus-fodder...

Edit:
That's why I personally feel that there's a huge imbalance in implementation, because Divinus is across-the-board 'base damage or better' which means Divinus attacks basically ignore the entire resistance implementation or benefit from it, whereas everyone else is affected positively in some areas and negatively in others. Excepting Excorable, which is always either base or worse.

Even Domoth mobs are only slightly weak to excorable (and have no Divinus resistance at all).

Easy solution: Whip up a script that goes through the database and puts a nice hefty Divinus resistance on any mob that does not have a Divinus weakness. Done.

All of which ignores that excorable will do more damage to the large majority of the player base.

Want bashing equality in the name of mechanics? That's fine. But then there needs to be combat equality along with that, and Div should be hammering more people than a small subset of people.

So far, all I see is a lot of "I want equality where it benefits me".

A better solution, which would leave the RP of it all intact, would be to just make sure that exco is doing its general extra damage to bashing targets as well.

Then let the admin introduce new exco-friendly areas over time.