About celest helping, I wasn't around for Dairuchi or I might have helped. I think I was around for southgard but I had recently been led to my death by a ..uh.. less that smart serenwilder and was warry to follow them into anything else.

With this event. I was never aware that Serenwilde wanted help. I wasn't around for most of it. I don't have deathsight so I didn't know anything was going on in that manner.

I didn't pry deeper into it because I seemed a Mag/seren oriented thing and Kaileigh is a bit miffed at serenwilders for always being on the water plane.

To be honest, the majority of people in Lusternia probably do see you as a stooge . No offence, I don;t know you OOC and have only met you a few times IC but the stooge label does seem to fit from what I'ev heard.

Histories are neevr unbiased and the histories here are meant to tell a story. A story is filled with emotive words and atleast some amount of passion. Putting down straight facts would defeat the purpose, really.

It seems pretty simple to me lady Estarra, it was technically and physically impossible to empower Crow untill the bugs were finally fixed, so where is it exactly we failed so miserably in our efforts?

Who said you "failed miserably"? If we saw bugs we fixed them, and the whole point Estarra made was that things appeared too hard as they were so things were done about it.

Oh pish posh Lisaera - as if a half hour window of opportunity after days of work wasnt enough to set us up the bomb. In fact! next time it should be reduced to a 10 and a half minute window just to make us all work harder *queue lots of people lining up to jab me in the gut*.

Umm I think he point was that things WERE too hard, so they were made better. You can't expect it to be handed to you on a platter though.

Mebbe I should have added tags to that post?

Probably. You just came across as being a twat . No offence, just the tone.

Shiro, Celest -didn't- help. Rhysus brought a large force at the start. After that for the next 13 hours we saw very few people from Celest. Dahlia being the most prominent person to always come and help.

Celest did not keep Ethereal from falling to Mag and Crow. For one, Crow was not attacking Ethereal, for another Magnagora was raiding and leading off Fae while we tried to single them out and wipe them out. They caught onto this rather quickly however and started moving in a... herd?.. Making it harder for us to draw one or two off and kill them. In all of that though, where was New Celest? Not on Ethereal that is for sure.

On New Celest not living up to their obligations under the alliance, why, if you knew that you had a poor fighting base, dysfunctional guilds, and general city apathy, did you commit to an alliance where you promised to 1) deliver 2 cities to Serenwilde and 2) fight as an equal (with similar forces) against Magnagora? Unless something radically changed in your player base, you KNEW that New Celest would more or less be a junior partner in the alliance, receiving more than they gave, and unable to meaningfully contribute to an alliance. This, in my opinion, is the betrayal.

New Celest knew that they were too weak to deliver on many of their promises yet represented to Serenwilde that they could be equal partners and really contribute to an alliance. New Celest defrauded Serenwilde in this one-sided alliance, making promises they knew they couldn't keep. The individuals from New Celest who tried to fulfill the terms of the alliance should be thanked, but as a whole, New Celest failed miserably and there is no excuse for that. A deal is a deal. If you can't live up to your end there should be reprecussions. Once this became clear, Serenwilde would have been better off herb/potion banning New Celest, breaking the alliance and informing Magnagora of these facts. My guess is that a crippled New Celest would have represented too tempting of a target for many Magnagorans, diverting attention away from Serenwilde and effectively eliminating more attackers than 2 or 3 fighter from New Celest. Hopefully Serenwilde will learn from this experience and take hostages, commodities, gold, etc. to ensure that New Celest lives up to their bargain if there is a future "alliance". Alternatively, they could launch a war against New Celest now that Magnagora is quiet again and grab back those two cities. I bet Magnagora would be willing to help out just for the fun of it.

I have to agree with the people defending Celest. Tuek, Gregori, you guys have never been a citizen of Celest, you don't know the state it is in. There are very few prominent members of the city that are on at any given times. After all the good fighters and leaders left the city or Lusternia (i.e.- Rafael, Saraxus, Thorgal, Dumihru etc.) it became a lot harder for them to organize and even fight at all.

In all honesty, I think Celest wanted to help but lacked the capacity to do so, such as not having many people being able to survive on Cosmic Planes. But that doesn't mean you should go around flaming people like Eldanien, who helped Serenwilde on numerous occasions and died many times doing so, or Rhysus for not being able to gather more people to help us.

Back to the attempt at slaying Gorgulu, did you guys really think we could have slayed Gorgulu, even with Lisaera's blessing when we barely had 10 people attacking him?

Unless your Rhysus or a star council member then please don't conjuer stuff that has been untrue. New Celest's fighters are still being trained and like Jerah said, we tried our best. we may of failed by we did try our best to hold up the end of the alliance. New Celest helped Serenwilde in Ethereal many times during the war and also help retrieve the tainted fae that Magnagora conjuered. Looks like at the facts, Magnagora has broke one ceasefire before and most likely will do it again. Serenwilde wanted a ceasefire because they knew Magnagora could beat them in a long war. if Serenwilde wants to do that to New Celest thats fine but we will defend ourselfs against them or Magnagora if they attacked us. Its simple as that.

By the way, Tuek, Lets not forget when we had a large group of Celestians and Serenwildes ready to kill Gorgulu, you decided to cancel it because you had to leave and didn't think we could handle it.

Hrm, I'm not Rhysus or the 'star council', but I think I'll give this a shot.

Celest didn't do jack. One out of six people helped, and because they had their own reasons, not because Celest said anything about it. Rhysus wasn't here through half the major points of the event (no offense) and Jerah's hardly in game at all. Shiro, you do nothing but flare your own ego around, and at the risk of one of Erion's IDIOTIC statements, Celest isn't training any fighters from what I saw. They don't even know the extent of the laws they wrote.

Celest is Magnagora's stomping ground, and Serenwilde is Magnagora's ass-kisser.

Damn you, Magnagora.

It's interesting to see Celest used as the scapegoat yet again.

The thing about city populations here is that they are done by choice. I feel so sorry for the people who happened to pick Celest as their first city, not knowing that it would be the whipping boy of the entire populace.

I guess this is what happens when a city starts off with less experienced players and spends the first couple of RL months being constantly beaten on by a city with a playerbase that has on average far more experience. And I'm talking about this from an OOC viewpoint because it made a lot of the players extremely unhappy and caused them to leave (several quit Lusternia completely), including a lot of the leaders and potential leaders.

You end up with the city with the smallest active playerbase (not counting alts that were created out of curiosity but are rarely touched). Most of those who create new Celestian characters have no clue of the current state of the cities (and are choosing at random). This does not make for a growing experienced playerbase to pull the city out of the hole that it's in.

I admire those who continue to keep their main characters in Celest, even after having been through all of this. In my opinion, those are the only people who can comment on Celest's current state. I realize that IC opinions will be based on what people see. But as a lot of this is coming out on OOC forums, I'm a little surprised. It's easy to point fingers at the organization that's currently on the bottom, but honestly, if you haven't been there and haven't tried to fix it, then no offense, but I really don't think that you have any room to comment. This isn't targetted at anybody so much as a general statement.

Roanth - As logical as your comments sound from a completely uninvolved perspective, they also make it somewhat obvious that you weren't involved in the agreements and probably aren't aware of the the details of what happened, the situation at the time, or the changes that have occurred since then.

On a side note - Eldanien is one of the aforementioned characters. And he did come to help defend in raids more times than I can count. He sat there and held up a greater pentagram in the greenhouse for in-game days when there were no Serenwilders with the ability. The first incident with Gorgulu happened just after greater pentagram was changed to disappear on its own. I wouldn't be surprised if nobody had the this message highlighted (or had seen it more than once or twice, given the power cost).

Aris, I was one of the fighters with Rhysus who Defended the Ethereal plane against Magnagora so please shut up

Celest is currently the equivalent of Belgium, circa both World Wars. A small country filled with many bickering factions that gets overrun every time the two much larger and capable sides go to war.

I would add that the only thing Celest seems to be training right now is really touchy egos.

Aye, we timed it. Eldanien probably had it up and didn't realize it dropped in a little under three minutes.

I'm going to come right out and say that 2/3's of the Star Council is inactive. Of the other third, Lyren has never taken part in combat, and neither has Jem.

Celest did not 'fail' the alliance. Did we fufill it entirely? No. Did we -try- and fufill it? Yes.

Like someone said on some thread (I'm getting them all confused now), Serenwilde should have -known- Celest would get more out of the cookie jar than they would put it. Did the Serenwilde go ahead and solidify the agreement? Yes.


And, I'm starting to lose my train of thought now. I'll just stop talking...