You don't ally with Poland and expect hordes of troops to come rushing to your aide.

hey, we tried our best to help keep up the alliance and though we failed we still did our best. Etanru is right. for once.

Thoril, you are wearing my nerves. 99% of the time that a mortal convinces a god that a quest is "impossible", I investigate and there is no bug, just mortal stupidity. RAISING AND EMPOWERING CROW WAS POSSIBLE FROM DAY ONE. Indeed, Crow could have been raised and empowered in 3 days (real-time) from the time Magnagora decided to do it (though granted it is a hard quest). If you think it was 'impossible', you are simply grossly misinformed. This is all I will say on the matter and I'm not going to allow you to bait me into further discussion over it.

One finds that an empty pail is easily quaffed, yet thirst remains regardless.

In english?

It was. Read it -slowly-.

Celest tried its best to quinch the thirst of Serenwilde yet they wanted more.

That's one interpretation. Good job.

Shush

Shiro did NOT just get that before I did.
*retires in shame*

haha

Apologies, lady Estarra, I was just a bit worn out from the event.

She's talking to Thoril, not you. No need to apologize.

Dumihru,

I am in no attempting to say I know the ins and outs of what was a relatively complex agreement. However, when I see people like Gregori and Tuek basically lambasting the New Celest effort, I can logically deduce that Serenwilde leadership (who is in the "know") feels that New Celest failed miserably in upholding its end of the bargain. Hence, my post. If New Celest made it very explicit in negotiations that their ability to wage war was limited and all they would likely be able to add to the conflict is 2 or 3 experienced fighters, I retract my previous statement and apologize to the good people of New Celest. Given the reaction of senior leaders in Serenwilde, however, I expect that is not the case.

Regardless of the benefits New Celest has gained in the short-term (2 cities, etc.), in the long run I think they will pay many times over for their failure for the simple fact that Serenwilde is unlikely to help them in future conflicts with Magnagora or ally with them in a common cause. Maybe this will change if the New Celest population/fighter base increases or if new leadership is installed, but until that happens I have a hard time believing any Serenwilde leaders will take anything New Celest says at face value. To quote the old saying, "Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.", and I don't think either Tuek or Gregori are fools. IRL and on Lusternia, every country/political organization has a certain amount of political capital to spend. I feel that by failing to live up to this alliance New Celest has expended what little it has left. If New Celest was smart they would internally find a scapegoat (absentee head of Aquamancers guild, etc.) and kick them out, etc. as an apology to Serenwilde. Yeah, that's the ticket! Or maybe pay some "war reparations" in the form of comms and gold to Serenwilde.

Well, just so we aren't going under any false pretenses here...

-I- was never even spoken to concerning -any- alliance or anything -approaching- an alliance until after we were all in the middle of that. I've never once personally stepped back from requests by the Seren to aide, and I've asked the city on multiple occasions to aide them. But if New Celest was ever treaty bound to ensure that Serenwilde ended up with two villages to their credit...News to me. And I'd say that I'd be a relatively important person to contact about something like that.

Rhysus - With all due respect, you weren't present at the times that the villages affected by the agreements came into play. This is why they were informal agreements between the fighters who were present -- because that is all that they could be at the time, lacking the presence of political leaders. One of the agreements was later solidified by Jerah. Jerah is also the only council member to post congratulations to the city during this time, or thank them for helping with Delport, and the only one to encourage citizens to return the favor when the next village came into play.

If you had been there, then I'm sure the people involved would happily have turned the agreement-making over to you. But you weren't.

I've always enjoyed the bickering between serenwilde and Celest and always thought it was pure roleplay because theres really nothing you two have done to eachother that I don't think anyone else would understand. but keep up the good RP on these forums, its fun!

I knew perfectly well about Jerah's agreements. We spoke about them at length, and I was completely informed about everything that took place. I also agreed with the actions. But, again. None of this was contingent upon any absolute treaty. That was my only point. It was an agreement, and as much as could be done, was done. You know how things are in Celest, Dumihru. I imagine that's largely why you abandoned the city. But there was certainly no lack of effort made by those who -could- provide assistance.

Hmm, I believe that Rhysus didn't know it was a treaty. After we got the the first village, he sent all the leaders a letter of thanks, at least I think it was him, it was someone that made Alyvia spit. The tone of the letter wasn't, "Thank you for holding up your side of the deal." It was more, "Thank you for coming out and helping."

I think it's hideously unfair to call Celest's part in this a "betrayal".

It is certainly true that Celest provided much less help than Serenwilde hoped for, or expected. I know the number of times I went to fight to fend off raids on Serenwilde or the Ethereal, probably five out of six either had no Celestians or only one, often Dahlia. And the help-with-villages thing is pretty noteworthy.

It's our own fault for expecting more than Celest can realistically offer. But it's also Celest's fault for offering more than they can realistically offer. But fault is cheap and there's more than enough to share it around. It's in no way a betrayal.

But it's also not something that's going to make Serenwilde more chummy with Celest than before, either.