since the Fae event I have become curious on an OOC level about cosmic and ethereal magics, and if you read other threads about Balach swamp, and other things, it makes sense to me that Cosmic and Ethereal don't mix. Its not just an alembic and a Pentagram. These are items that use up power, if they use power it means they have an extraplanar or spiritual element to them. (I'm putting mages into the spiritual aspect here, even though thats not the word you would normally use to describe them)

Am I completely off the mark? I don't think so, but that is the only reason I can see why city folk can pick herbs but can't brew a potion. Pentagrams are used to make enchantments which means the person must have highmagic, Alembics are used to make Potions which means that person must have low magic. Low magic comes from Ethereal, High magic from Cosmic (thats where they get their names from.. higher and lower plane in refrence to prime).

As mush as I would like to be able to visit a manse that has an alembic and pentagram in it, so that my alcehmy friend and enchantment friend can sell me goods in one room, I think it would be better if Manses can not mix them.

Infact, it makes one wonder, if manses that share the same Aetherways would be able to exist in their own dimenionsal rifts with these items, or if the cosmic and etheral nature of them would cause conflict and chaos making some potions come out with elemental affects.
I can just see it now... everytime you sip your health vial you get a mercy enchantment on you. (or whatever the health regen enchantment is)

Oh god, let's forget all the arguments. There is no reason why we can't have a room to make stuff in. If you find some kind of super holy cosmic and or ethereal juice that powers your potions or enchantments, you tell me.

Thats all I was basing it off of. And numerous other posts and events on the topic of differences between Communes and Cities... like their nexi for example.

Roark stated that its not in the master plan to only have serenwilde have an alembic, so to me its not an issue of economic balance or monopolies, to me its an issue of convinecne and RP. I would hate to see the Manses not be part of the rest of the RP world just because they are "seperate"

Ever read, or play, Myst? The guys created thier own worlds, to thier own liking. I think of manses like this. I can tell you, mine is going to freak people out.

And they said imagined. I got out of that, that they had only thought to have the others in originally, and that it was perhaps going to become an option. Afterall, They wanted it to not be just Serenwilde with those rooms.

Oooh, never thought about the Myst concept.. that is cool... but remember what happened to those authors?

It might be fun talking to richter through a prism face that he can't escape unless I kill Aris.

The Rp you're trying to preserve is faulty since it's based on a situation which was not meant to be. Think of this monopoly has a golden era for serenwilde at best.

But do not try to pull some extra planar justification or any crazy kind of cosmic/ethereal energy mix and whatnot to justify a situation which is absurd.

I think it's about time to create an rp background which is compatible with the situation in which we should rightfully have been into from the start, and prepare the era which is about to be born as soon as glomdoring will be ready.

If Glomdoring had existed from the start... we would be more cool about the subject instead of trying to bend everything so it could match with an equation which is already wrong.

Freya, your not reading what I'm writing closely enough.

I'm not "pulling" anything.

And I have allready stated that if No other commune was going to come about soon, that Alembics should be in manses no question.

But assuming both GLomdoring and Serenwilde exist, and looking at HELP MUGWUMPS and Project Soulforce and the latest event with the Fae and Nil, and looking at HELP COSMIC, HELP ELEMENTALISM, HELP NATURE, HELP HIGHMAGIC, HELP LOWMAGIC, the fact that Communes do not have a nexus on Cosmic or Elemental, and the fact that cities do not have a nexus on Ethereal.... I have come to the conclusion that the reason why cities don't have alembics is because of the Ethereal power that is needed to run them, and the reason Communes don't have pentagrams is because of the Cosmic power needed to run those.

By the way - why do you people think that alembics should be allowed, but not pentagrams? I can see why one might vote one way or another for both, or even pentagrams only, because alembics are so important, but why would anyone think that it's good to have an alembic, losing Serenwilde's advantage in that regard, but not pentagrams, partially losing the city's advantages, even though they're already split in two?

I would think those votes would be based on the "monopoly" arguments. Its the flipside to the convience argument.

I see three arguments, each with have two sides to the issue.

Monopoly or Economic (as Freya said, this is a bit unfair since it will change with or without manses)

Convienence or Political (both pros and cons for both)

Roleplay or Game "balance/imbalance" (both pros and cons for both)

I think the argument makes more sense to say not that cities can't have alembics, but that city-power can't power the alchemy skill...which it currently can't. I don't know much about alembics, maybe they are a more spiritual item then I realized, but it sounds to me like it is mostly a tool, and the real 'power' comes from the spiritual connection to the mother moonheart tree. Our argument is that as long as the alchemist still has that connection, why should it matter where the alembic is?

I'd guess the same argument would work for enchanters, I assume you need power from the pool or megalith to power enchantments? That seems like the REAL source of power, not the contiguity of the tool to the associated political body.

Thats a good point. Which was why I suggested that those manses with alembics or pentagrams can't link to the city/commune respectivly.

I think from an OOC Gameplay, roleplay point of view, not allowing them reinforces the idea to people that there is something about these two forces which are unique. Not allowing them to connect to the power sources that are opposite them, would reinforce the idea to people that there is some sort of conflict between the two. Much like there is conflict between Oil and Water... however, soap does exist.

but thats why I think it can go both ways. I'm mainly just be trying to argue the fact that such an agrument exists... if that makes any sense. Quite a few people seem to think I'm pulling this concept out of my arse.

Just the point was looking for, but I couldn't put it into words. As long as the connection is there, why does it matter where the room is?

I am going to make a simple suggestion; for this paragraph (and described mechanics) be added.


As aether manses are irrevocably tied to their host cities/communes, they are bound by the nature of their host. As such, ethereal energies prevent pentagrams from being built in commune manses, and cosmic magics similiarly prevent alembics from being built in city manses.


Problem solved.

I am of the opinion that if there is going to be a commune added in the near future, then Alembics being allowed would be a BAD thing.

Think of the situation in regards to enchantment. Celest and Magnagora (For some strange hypothetical reason) team up to beat the bejesus out of Serenwilde. Obviously, those two forces teaming up is HUGELY monumental (don't say bad roleplay, because it isn't), and represents the force of their convictions to crush Serenwilde.

Should then Serenwilde be able to go "No, its okay, we have our own pentagrams so even the fact that such a powerful force has come against us doesn't really matter. Carry on."

If there is going to be another commune, the same situation should likewise be prevented. Sure, let people buy Alembics now, but on the explicit condition that they will be removed, without refund, when another commune comes into being. That sounds fair to me.

You know, I actually like the fact that there can be monopolies within Lusternia and a big marging giving way to inequity. Why? Because can you imagine a conflicting reality without these two clauses not existing? We are not talking about Lusternia being Uthopia where all the players have to be satisfied. Of course, the general player basis does need satisfaction, but I think that there are things that shouldn't be tampered with because they are fundamental factors of the different rps. Serenwilde are forestals, so they have greater ways to interact with herbs to make elixirs, cityfolk have their artificial ways with enchantments. I really don't believe that making everyone able to get either Alembic or pentagram would be the answer to anything. In some fashion, I think that probably a forestal having a pentagram in their home goes beyond their rp, so why should they be able to have them? Let cityfolk get them on their manse. Forestal background people, be it cityless rogues or commune dwellers, should only be able to possess alembics in their manse.

Maybe, everything would be much more "equal" if perhaps every city had their own special product which they could entirely monopolize. But this isn't the case. And right now elixirs can be monopolized simply because right now Serenwilde doesn't have their adversary active. Monopolies are perfect for political developements, and I am soon enough that any existing black market will find itself useless once Glomdoring is created. So, I really don't see why people complain so much about monopolies and things not being equal in realms. Hey, monopolies are a reality... and they are much ugly to deal with in real life. In any case, if suddenly they allow alembics to be created in forestal manse and pentagrams in citizen manse, just make friends with either to satisfy any of your capricious desires, the black market can't be eliminated.

To tell the truth, I never saw how monopolies enhanced RP. All they enhance is the powergaming concept (including PK).

The worst thing about Serenwilde's monopoly is that they're fully aware of it and work it to death. We'll attack your villages en masse and oppose your attacks on Celest's villages with equal force, but if you try to fight us in general or attack our villages, BAN. Have a nice day.

Would you expect any different? While we have an advantage we will use it. That would be like us demanding limits on fighters since you have more skilled fighters and us.

Heh, look at the bans as a weapon. Magnagora was, in the majority, defeating Serenwilde majorly. Thanks to the fact that Serenwilde possess a monopoly on elixirs, means that we could weaken Magagora by refusing them service. Just another tactic to try obstacle the enemy even further, no propaganda, no face to face battle, simply try to undercut their resources. Though thanks to people who will always be willing to refill to those lucky few, I think black market is always active. How can monopoly play a role on roleplaying? As I see it, basically having the ability to mantain a monopoly gives way for people who want to roleplay as smugglers, and political conflicts involving bans if they were mantained. Monopolies wouldn't enhance roleplay, per se, just give further ways to roleplay. Establish a monopoly, then have those activist trying to topple the monopoly. Just another element on the diverse branches of conflict that exist. *shrug*

Even though, this is a bit out of topic from discussing whether people could build alembic or pentagrams. Personally I belive monopoly could be integrated in this by mantaining that only people with forestal backgrounds should be able to possess an Alembic, and only those with city backgrounds be able to mantain pentagrams. It doesn't stray from the current trends of every kind of habitat(?) containing a nature specific to it.

I don't think it's off topic at all, since the entire point of selling alembics would be to break the monopoly.

Of course it'll be used because it's there, but I don't think it's fair.