What use would those pentagrams be, without cityfolk to use them? People seem to be implying that this would somehow allow cities to get alchemy and communes to get enchantment, when it would do no such thing. Make a ban harder to enforce, yes, but without Serenwilde being willing to lock the alembic and let no one in, it's not possible to entirely enforce it now. Not to mention the fact that in the future, you'll need two enemies to both agree to a ban, making it more or less worthless.

It's hilarious how people try convincing eachother having a monopoly on anything at all in an IRE game adds to role- and gameplay...it's simple, it doesn't make sense RP-wise, it isn't fair, there's no reason to it on any level and it only detracts from enjoying the game.

OK I'm not sure about the Alembic thing. Personally my char has never been an alchemist and never will be.

However, an enchanter he is and if you get a mass order of enchantments it is nice to do it in private. Also Enchantment has a element of possible theft. Wouldn't it be nice to do your enchantments in a nice and private room free from danger and distractions.

I don't think using monopoly is Serenwilde's fault. I'd use it too if I had it. It's more of admins fault. If they couldn't add another commune from start to lessen monopoly somewhat, they could've done few simple things, like: a) placing another alchembic in Glomdoring; making Alchemy require generic power; c) when Glomdoring commune actually comes into play, making Alchemy require Moonhart/Ravenwood power. That would've lessened monopoly somewhat.

Still doesn't change the fact that if I get an alembic, only my serenwilde merchants can use it.

So why not let me have one?

That is exactly why monopolies are so great for conflict, and whatever may follow. Notice I am talking about monopolies and unfairness... things that NEED to exist on any reality, we aren't trying to make somekind of harmony heaven out of Lusternia, are we? Monopolies are good, a permanent embargo WOULD always be lame. Politics has such a complex tapestry, especially involving economics, and monopoly is hidden somewhere in there. But because people can't control entirely the masses, therefore the production and distribution of wares, you will always have the black market. Doesn't this seem so real? Yeah, of course, whenever Glomdoring decides to show up, they will probably be pro-Magnagora ending any possibility for Serenwilde to possess a monopoly (drats! ). But it will bring new layers of conflict. In any case, Alembics and Pentagrams (um, alembics especially) inside a private house will make it even harder for any ban to be effective. Just view private alembics as a way to brew homemade gin, or anything by that matter. But still I mantain that only people with some sort of forestal blood should be able to have alembics in the first place, and the same for cityfolk being the only ones able to get pentagrams.

EDIT: Oh, and rp wise, I think it makes sense. A group controls the means of production of a thing (blame the Fate if you wish), then they have the power to do whatever they wish with the power that this control gives them. The monopoly applied by Serenwilde in Lusternia is by far much more loose than in other places, because Serenwilde only possess control over elixirs... now imagine if we also had the power to monopolize herbs? Then that would be hell. So far, there are no competitors around to play ball. Besides, the ban during the war wasn't abusive. Serenwilde resorted to it to try hinder an enourmous threat. It would've been silly to see a hundred alchemists serving Magnagoran's simply to die to their blades the day later.

And I just read the part about "When a new commune comes out, take all the private alembics without refund."

How does that even make sense?

Most of you are missing the point... If manses got alembics... Only Serenwilders could still use them! If they got pentagrams... only enchanters could use them! What's this about monopolies and the end of the world?

Richter , Manses will provide a neutral ground, for the alchemists and every other players of the basin.

It could become some kind of slums or fourth party , ideal for black market and such.

Due to the nature of the commune, the tradeban concept is based on the voluntarism of its active participants.. since the commune is a structure , open to arguing and stuff.

So if a possible tradeban become infamous among the serenwilders, there is still this manse area, a neutral ground where people could get their refills without going overly friendly with alchemists.

But i'm sure, that something you already knew. Now it doesn't break the monopoly .. but it eases it some.

And no.. monopolies are not fun Desdemona.. But if serenwilders start to abuse it , i'm gonna tell Estarra , and Auseklis will come and spank you all .. neerneerneer..

Magnagorans got potions from Serenwilders during the ban. The only thing that dropped potion sales was the fact they weren't willing to sell to Magnagorans, not because they might get caught selling to Magnagorans.

If I provide an alembic in my manse, it won't change anything other than I have a freaking tradehall now. It won't make Serenwilders jump up and say, hey, we won't get caught now!

The ones that wouldn't sell before, were just honoring the ban. It wasn't because they couldn't get away with it.

Remember, when someone makes a potion in Serenwilde, they don't put the recipient's name on it... The only think I'm trying to do it make it easier for us, and RP a bit. Oh, but maybe my manse could become a shady place, and people could sell potions there!

Fine, ban manses.

Wait, I said something that didn't make sense. So many people here are rubbing off on me.

reasoning by the absurd could be great but they always are dangerous.

There are magnagorans with some roleplaying background who had ties with serenwilders and got their potions because they could work their way around.

Now, my character is a nobody, do not have ties with serenwilders, do not seek them.. at the time of the war, was an enemy of Serenwilde. The casual alchemists would _never_ go the length of teleporting to me , get my empty vials , go back to serenwilde , refills them, teleport back, get my money and give my vials back.

And i would never enter an enemy area for some refills.

That's what i meant by neutral area. Now,except those two examples, Freya is not responsible for other possibly erronous streak of character depicting the behaviour of serenwilders in a period of conflict.

What kind of alchemists were -you- using? The ones that didn't like to make gold? If I want potions, I'm getting them somehow, and the fact I want my own alembic has no bearing on this.

Also, by your own words, your character is a nobody. I'm going to make an assumption here, and say that since I'm not a nobody, because many, many people know me, and I keep in contact with these people, about issues like this... *huff* that I know what I'm talking about.

Or just have a rather loud opinion.

Does anyone have a -real- argument? None of this "it isn't fair", or "I'm going to bring up a point that has nothing to do with the topic". Daganev has the closest thing to a reasonable debate, and even that was questionable.

Simply put: why can't I have one? Is there any real -reason-?

I'd be delighted with even a Divine's -opinion- on the matter.

-bah-
If you think that whatever status one could muster in the game, will impress me outside of it.. you're wrong.

So you want the advice of an ingame Divine.. do at your ease. They'll probably answer you.

If they do a synthesis of everything that had been said, that would be great.. since it seems some people do not even bother to read(*hiss*)

And Shiri.. sorry dude .. i reedited the post so it would be less polemical.. to lessen the chance of it being hijacked.

Or MAYBE it's just that novices have less experience with balance etc. than the Gods who actually make and run the game? You're saying that you should trust some random 6 year old who has an IQ of 300 rather than a doctor that's trained 10 years to do a heart operation.

EDIT: Or you could just edit your post entirely and put something else in its place. Nevermind.

Yer mean, Shiri.

Yes, I am. Why you bring that up now though, I have no idea.

He only got like that after we started telling him his avatar is a whale slipper, when he was convinced it's a badger or a beaver.

Okay, that's a new one, beaver. And no, I've always been mean. Well, since I was like 6 anyway. Whatev.

As per Roark, the monopoly wasn't meant to be, it simply wasn't possible to put in a new commune before the game went live. Therefore, being able to tradeban also wasn't meant to be. Therefore, why the hell are we arguing about how having alembics and pents will make it easier to get around a ban that wasn't meant to be?

Well no, an organisation is totally allowed to make a tradeban. During the war, I put in place a tradeban for the Serenguard, and guess what, we dont have any tradeskill no one else has. It was a matter of principal.

Hazar summed it up fairly nicely, except he left out that some manses would not be connected to either a city or a commune. would those places be allowed to have both?

I can see why Pentagrams really need to have their own area, just like forges do. alembics, I don't know much about how easy it is to take stuff from them.

Richter, the reason why you can't have them right now, is that only Cities are suppose to have Pentagrams and only communes are suppose to have Alembics. Manses are neither city nor commune.

On the other hand, what if a person decided to buy one manse with an alembic and one manse with a pentagram... would that make more sense? would it be worse? it all seems rather debateable, and I think it would be intersting if people could come up with argument for and against, without talking about fairness and Economic bans, but rather thought about the nature of pentagrams and alembics and their connection to cities and communes.