But why the Nil should those alembics and pentagram be connected to the cities or communes.

When you go to astral , you could use your powerfeats, on any planes , you could use your powerfeats..
then suddenly pof.. out of nowhere.. you would need your manses to be connected to some cities or communes so you could use your powerfeats.
This just doesn't make sense.. why would the location of the tool have an influence on how the powerfeat is performed.

And even if it so.. what would make the location of the alembic any different than the location of a pentagram when are both placed on the prime plane under the physical/magical laws.

A connexion to the nexus? bullsh.t.. unless you can powerblock an alembic or a pentagram.

an alembic is just an alembic.. it's a tool

You say.. only cities were *supposed* to own a pentagram.. but a lot of other things were supposed to be.. like a fourth commune.
And it's nothing else than a supposition.

An alembic is a tool that draws upon the power from the ethereal plane,

A Pentagram is a tool that draws upon the power from either the Elemental or Cosmic plane.

I have seen no indication that Elemental and Ethereal power don't mix well, but I believe I have stated plenty of evidence that shows Ethereal and Cosmic planes don't mix well.

-roll-

*runaway screaming*

If manses where connected to the nature of the owner (by nature I am implying the place of origin and background of someone), then manses could probably contain either an alembic or a pentagram, depending whether a person comes from the city or is a hermit retreated within the wilderness. (I am quite repetitive, aren't I?) Regarding actual locations of manses. I really don't know how this works, but I think Aetherways are buffers between planes (a place between Ethereal and Prime, for example). So maybe manses should also be responsive to the planes around it. Meaning that probably a manse located between Cosmic and Astral shouldn't at all get alembics, because alembics are of a more natural fashion.

But WHY ?

Why are you guys trying to pull these physical/magical laws of manse-weird-interplanlinking-stuff?

I want you to admit your true and original motivation ?

For the beauty of creating inter-planar laws.. Feh..

and i'll be damned if it's not economic.

Powerfeats are not the same as creating Enchantments or Potions. A powerfeat can only be done by that person who has a connection.

when you create an echantment or Potion, you are harnessing abilities that allow that magic or healing property to be seperated from its plane of orgin and to be used anywhere and everywhere, even on planes that normally would not mix.

to create that sort of seperation and ecasment, I believe requires you to have a strong connection to those magics or planes when doing the deed.

Just like if you wanted to encase something in gold, you need to start with a lot more gold than you plan on covering your item with.

I think its clear that cities and communes have special connections to their nexi and sources of power, such that they can prevent teleportations and automatically ressurect people who have a connection to it.

if it was economic, I would be arguing FOR alembics and pentagrams. My charachter is a Forger, and is from Magnagora, its the only charachter i have, or will ever have most likely. If theres anything I would want more its to have alembics and pentagrams with easy access for me to get stuff at.

the reason I'm using such arguments is because of the Fae event, RP and the stated intentions of Estarra.

sounds good.. really tempting to adopt this

I'm still suspicious on your motivation . Again , i had said it a while ago.. you're trying to justify a system physical/magical laws and give it a logical appearance.

I am not sure if those interplanar laws are entirely fictional. It is just plain opposite cancels/rejects opposite. At least I think. Let me give you an example:

1/12/05
Magnagora embarked on a dangerous experiment to create new race of tainted fae. For almost a year, they were pitted against Serenwilde, but in the end they succeeded in infusing the Demon Lord Gorgulu with the essence of Spirit Moon and creating tainted fae. However, the experiment got out of control as cosmic and nature magics were anathema to each other. Though hundreds upon hundreds of tainted fae manifested and Magnagora grew in power as the Basin was slowly being tainted, Gorgulu began to devour the other Demon Lords. Finally, the Nihilists and Moondancers had to set aside their grudges and work together to destroy Gorgulu. In the end, the Moon Avatars grew in power and Gorgulu was slightly altered, much to the interest of the Nihilists

So there is a rejection between the distinc type of planes and magic. This seems to follow an order from progressive plane to the next. Ethereal and Prime are okay together, and the Ethereal forest is a proof of this, but then Cosmic to Ethereal are entirely different, so they don't seem to blend together right.

EDIT: Don't use Impact! Just one last thing. I think that the same should work for alembic and pentagrams. Alembics should reject city dwellers and pentagrams reject forestals. Meaning that the manse reacts in accordance to the nature of their owner.

As I said before, I think the best example would be oil and water.
If you were somehow able to get oil and water to not stay seperate, it would probabbly be a very unstable system. But Soap exists, which is a catalyst for oil and water to be conntected but not actually touching or mixing.


And thank you Desdemona, I have not tried to "pull anything out of my :censored:" I was merely trying to move the debate into an area that actually made sense, instead of these perceived monopolies and levels of fairness.

*shrug* Even when your oil and water example does portray what seems to be the nature of relations between planes. I simply remembered about the news section and considered it an actual example given concerning planar relations, by giving a bit of validation to anything resembling interplanar laws. Meaning that it appears that these relations do follow a logic after all, that they aren't entirely random or conceived for someone's added benefit.

No Daganev.. the true stake of the whole affair is economical and political.

At the end, an arbitrary choice will be made and it will basically end up in the object of the poll, which will have repercussion.

You do understand that .. even if you want to play the cute bear who means noone harms who wants to move the topic on greener grass.

Feh!

Hopefully , maybe two uncompatible systems of physical/magical laws will be proposed but in the end it's gonna be a choice weither the "powertools" are locationfree or not.

From what I gathered from the poll's construction is that the Estarra wants the alembics and pentagrams to remain in the cities, but if she sees enough desire/good reason or sees an idea that she and her staff have not come up with yet, they will change their orignal plan and will have to come up with some cute loophole in the laws to allow it.

to be honest, I havn't looked too deeply into the way the various planes work with eachother, I've only look at how ethereal and cosmic have interacted. And the more I think about my arguments the more I realize they leave out the Elemental aspects of the pentagram.

oh, and my play of the cute bear, has no bearing on my posts. My posts here are OOC except I often change what I was going to say if I think someone might glean too much IC info from it.

don't worry, i'm having fun, you know

pah.. its the fever, its making me take everything seriously, sorry.

I don't know anything about pentagrams, but I still will speculate on what the pentragrams' nature is. Maybe Pentagrams are more of a Cosmic-Elemental nature just as Alembics are of an Ethereal-Prime nature. Meaning that Pentagrams draw their essence from entirely artificial collections, plus any sorted elements that may constitute the elemental planes. This could explain why cities possess Guardians and Mages who are attached to the Cosmic and Elemental planes the most, due to their link to those artificial (entirely spiritual like Cosmic) and elemental places.

EDIT: Just look at the nature of the Nexus. I believe Magnagora's nexus and Celest were both made, whereas the Mother Tree was grown serving as a direct link to both Ethereal and Prime?

what do you mean by artificial?

to mean, artificial would imply that it didn't exist untill a person came around and created it.

Yes, maybe artificial wouldn't be the correct way to describe it. Maybe the word I am looking for is supernatural. Something attributed to much more refined spiritual forces. I just used artificial to try differentiate something that could be considered primitive and seemingly substantial (natural) to something completely untangible. Though when referring to cities and their links to the spiritual, yes, I do regard them as man-made.

EDIT: Just one note. I am sure that by now, everyone must've realized that in Lusternia what are regarded as elements are the mythical four common components that existed attributed by the alchemists: Earth, Wind, Fire Water. Normally, something regarded as elemental is regarded as a refined state of nature because elements are considered pure, serving as buffers between the corporeal and spiritual.

I've still seen no evidence, even guessed at theoretical evidence, that alembics or pentagrams are connected to a nexus. The only good argument I've seen for disallowing them is when Estarra stated that cities are supposed to have pentagrams, and communes are supposed to have alembics, and while I respect Her, she gives no reasoning for this. For all we know, it could be Divine whimsy. Until They clarify, I'll argue based on what I know.

When I create a potion, I put my herbs into the alembic, open some valves to add some liquid, and then use my own power, or a powerstone, to force the ingredients together into a potion. In no way does the alembic have a connection to the nexus, that I can see. If someone who was kicked out of the commune tried to create a potion, it wouldn't work, because that person would have no connection to the nexus. If the alembic had one, it'd still have Mother energy, and would work. Also, if the alembic had a connection to the nexus, why not draw power from there, instead of from the alchemist?

From what I can tell, having used Alchemy, and not just making conjectures, it is nothing but a tool. I'm sure if someone with Cosmic energy tried to amalgamate a potion, it would have interesting side effects, and wouldn't work, but I doubt the alembic would have any part of that.