Welcome to the world of the yesman, Moore speaks, the yesmen nod.

Try watching FereinHYPE 9/11. Yes that is the actual name. Moore is a propaganda troll, nothing more. He is all about the $$$$. I even recently got to hear him speak. My college payed him a small amount ($50,000) to come and enlighten us with his words. Oddly, Sean Hanity (noted FOX "terrorist") offered to come and speak for free when the schools general population all but revolted against the student government for placing the entire public speaking budget on such a one sided view.

I am from a family of patriots, true patriots. My grandfather fought in the battle of the pacific, and was present at the surrender of Japan. On my other side, both my grandparents put their lives on the line as undercover officers against the large crime rings of Vegas during the prohibition era.

Im sure America was "just asking for it" when so many innocent people were killed at 9/11. Tha Taliban found out the same thing that the Japanese did after Pearl, you had better beable to back your attacks, or you will be crushed. Saddam more or less asked us to step up, and we did. That is that.

Bush isnt the best president in the world, but he is by far not the worst. Kerry couldnt make up his mind about how much sugar he wanted in he coffee without checking the polls to see if it would affect his rating, let alone man any kind of foreign policy.

So lets lay it out, the Taliban were more or less obliterated, Bin Ladin is in hiding, and Saddam got what he asked for. We cant spend our lives worrying about the natural resources, or the ozone layer, or the baby seals when other nations are continuously trying to stick a piece of dynamite up our arse.

Its not about Muslims, its not about Christians, its not about prayer at the Innaguration, its about the fact if a nation wants to fight, and brings it to our soil I'm perfectly fine with any President who obliges the notion, and I would gladly be among those to go and put them in their place. So I guess that puts me in the damned imperialist american category.



May the Lord have mercy


By the way, I do not consider myself a Christian in the Christian's definition of the word, and neither do most Christians. But I dont support anyone who decides to bash on ANY faith or religion, be it born again, muslim, hindu, or whatever... Just because Bush as faith in his religion, doesnt make it so he trying to push his beliefs on the nation, anyone who believes that is a fool.

*coughgrammercough*

Just to make one thing perfectly clear, if it wasnt for the rest of the world in WWII America never would have gotten into the war. Untill the Japanese attacked, you couldnt have given a if we all ended up "speaking German."

Cuba is having problems due to the illegal trade embargo imposed by the United States upon it. Hell the fact it manages to survive as well as it does with the trade embargos removing nearly a billion dollars in GNP, is a miracle.

Be proud of your country, you have done some great things, but alot of things Americans tend to actually be proud of, arent the things they should be proud of.

First of all, Bush is an extremist. Worse, he's an extremist with an obscene amount of money and power, and so he can do basically whatever he wants, especially given Congress's compliancy. If he were an extremist for gay marriage and peace and love and raising taxes on the rich and lowering them on the poor, he'd be called a communist hippie and not a single state south of the Mason-Dixon line or west of the Mississippi, except California, would vote for him. This is part of the diversity of America. Sometimes it sucks, sometimes it rules. Right now, for me at least, it sucks.

Someone made the comment about the Hollywood-ishness of Bush's speech? Presidents have been elected on looks and charisma alone, practically, since the 60's, and the first televised debate. Of course he needs to have big, lofty images of hellfire in his speech. If Kerry had been ten years younger, louder, and more imposing, he would've stood a much better chance of winning. Sad, but true.

Tolerance is also another topic on this thread. A tolerant person is making a very lame attempt at being a good person. "Well, I don't agree with the 'homosexual lifestyle', but I'll *tolerate* you, because I'm in a good mood and you're the only gay around; just one of you isn't a threat." People deserve acceptance, not tolerance. Tolerance is indifference, and indifference has been historically one of the most destructive forces in the world.

To my European friends: The American government right now is throwing its weight around in more ways than one. It happens. Iraq, Cuba, etc. etc. etc.... I mean, America might be being loud, proud, and in your face today, but Europe's been loud, proud, and in your face since the Roman Empire. Y'all have a good 2500 year head start on us, guys. Give us a break. We're new at this. The grace and streamlining will come later.

To my American friends: Don't EVER be ashamed of your country. Actually, this goes for everyone. You can't help where you're born. You can't help that big corporations control far too many things. ...Of course, if you're one of those people who 'can' help that, you're going to burn in hell. Oh WAIT, that's discrimmination against business people. Rich business people, at that. Hm. Anyway, even if you dislike our government now, it will change. Bush might be able to get reelected after waiting four years--MAYBE(I'd like to see the proof of that)--but will he really run? I mean, even Evangelicals get tired sometimes. JUST KIDDING. ...

And despite it ALL, I'm proud to be an American. I like this country. I like the land, I like the people, I like the cities. I like the weather, even when it's blizzarding outside.

Somebody Bless The World.

A minor correction to one of the posts: Bush cannot run again if he skips 4 years. The 22nd Amendment says no president can be elected more than twice. This was in response to FDR getting elected so much. I believe even his own party was worried about the abuse that could happen if another party's candidate got elected that many times so went along with the Republicans on that one. The idea of running a 3rd term after a four year break is the story of Clinton. Rumour has it that he supposedly wants to push to ammend the Constitution to allow presidents a 3rd term if they take a 4 year break so he can run again, similar to the rumour of the Terminator supposedly wanting to ammend it so that foreign-born citizens can run for president. But as it is currently, the only way to get another Bush or Clinton in office is to run Jeb or Hillary.

I'll like to chip in an outsider's point of view.

While I have not witnessed it first-hand, many of us have heard from our grandparents that life was harsh under Japanese Occupation. When the Americans dropped the bombs over Japan, they almost single-handedly brought about an end to the war on the eastern front.

In some ways, I can't help but agree with Alyssandra about the Americans not entering the war if not for the incident at Pearl Harbour. However, I'm certain that many people over my side of the world are grateful for the intervention, regardless.

Personally, I feel that direct conflict with Iraq isn't the best way to liberate the Iraqi people. But as you can tell, I end up contradicting myself, after all, I am grateful for the Americans ending the Japanese Occupation right?

The simplest analogy I can think of is this:

Parents sometimes force their children to take a certain academic path, claiming that it is 'for their own good', even against the child's wishes. Whether this is true or not is debatable, but the point is, people who are directly affected do not necessarily have the clarity of mind to see both sides of the coin.

No kidding. We didn't originally go in there to liberate the Iraqi people. We went in there because of the thousands of WMDs that those stupid diplomats weren't finding, only to find out that the stupid diplomats aren't so stupid after all. It kind of turned into more than it was intended to be. America's got this whole nation building thing on the brain... *shrug* If people don't want to be liberated, it's mighty hard to liberate them.

You obviously have never heard of FDR's and Churchill's meetings, where FDR promised that America will enter the war once the American people are ready.

About the WMDs, I guess everyone ignores the fact that Iraq is one huge desert and its hard to track where everything goes, and Iraq is surronded by desert.

Also on the WWII thing, from the moment Germany invaded Poland, the US Industries started their loan lease programs and were ARMING the allies. They single handly armed the Russians, they gave equipment, and even TRAINED ARMY PILOTS to the British.

America could not enter the war on any scale other then that until the nation was prepared to finance the war, and prepared to send troops. The United States declared war on Germany in May of 1941, 7 months before Pearl Harbor. Troops were deployed in Europe by June...

Pearl Harbor only split our forces, and raised the patrioism level of our nation, but we had already entered the war. We entered the war in 1939 with the Lend Lease, and again in 1940 when we added Russia to the lend lease.

Of course, just like the Mexican American war, the Americans will always be painted with the bad brush. (Reference here, it is common to hear that the American Government started the Mexican American war, this is historically false, the Mexican Army fired first, and when the US had capture the entirity of the country in one of the fastest campaigns in history (Only campaigns now, with planes and cars have matched or exceeded it.) the US turns around and gives all but California back.

THe real reason we got California, was Mexico couldn't afford to keep fighting the revults in California, so the US said we will BUY it. We didn't conquor it, we BOUGHT it.

But that is a whole different subject.

And someone said we should accept everyone, and everything, and that I will never say yes to.

Would you accept a Nazi?

Would you accept a Devil Worshiper bent on killing hundreds?

Do you accept people who rape, because they believe they are better, and it is their right?

The fact is, not everything should be accepted, or even tolerated. I don't really care if you say I am a bad person because I am intolerant of gays, intolerant of people whining about how bad their life is but doing NOTHING to improve it, and I will never tolerate someone who preaches they are the same as everyone else, then turn around in a parade and celebrate how different they are.

When a group of people begins to tolerate anything, its moral fabric is torn to shreds. The fibers that keep the majority of people safe, and happy are cast aside, in favour of the new blanket that only covers an exclusive minority. The modern tolerance isn't about accepting, it isn't about gays, it isn't about blacks, hispanics, or little old gringos like me. It is a tool the minorities push to make themselves louder.

Guess what guys, the majority of this country is not gay.

The majority of this country is not political correct.

The majority of this country IS Christian.

The majority of this country cares about its families, and people around them.

But, when ever one of these majority stand up and speak, this incrediablly loud, verbal, and rabid minority spokesmen tells them everything they are is wrong. Tells them they are fools for beleiving that they are the same as anyone else. Tells them to shut up, and that their religion is wrong, their way of life is wrong.

See, here is the inherent problem in US politics at this time. It is being ruled by minority thought. How do we not offend the minority, no matter what it does to the majority?

This is way you can proudly display a Crescent and Star, or a Star of David, or a statue of Buddha in public without hordes of people throwing stones. Display a cross, and they try to hang you on it.

If you want to yell scream, hollar, curse my name, what ever. IM me, Nementh02.

Right. So either A) You don't choose to be a Nazi, its just something your born with (or devil worshiper or rapist or whatever). Or if it is a choice - then you choose to be gay. Cause your comparing them like they are the same thing.

Honestly, in todays society, why would anyone choose to be gay? In our society, where 'gay' is used as an insult.

So unless you don't have a choice as to weather your a nazi, or you wish to kill millions (I have no problem with devil worshipping, just killing), or anything else, your arguemnt is CRAP.

How can you not have a choice of being a Nazi? If I was born into a Nazi family, and then went to school and learned of the artocities the Nazi's commited, I'd tell my parents to screw off and their ideals are wrong.

First, a president can actually be in office for 10 years maximum due to this situation: current President being removed no more than 2 years from end of term and the new VP becoming President. This is, of course that the VP, now Pres in this situation doesnt get removed and gets elected two times in a row.

Secondly, if you want to hear a officer's military perspective on certain issues, feel free to PM me.

Everything, EVERYTHING, decided after you are born is your choice, from day one. A one hour old baby has decision making abilities.

Everything you do, be it decide you are gay, or pick up a banner and shout hail hitler, it is your choice. That is human free will, you always have a choice.

You don't decide to be straight, gay, bisexual, or asexual. I have no idea where you got that idea. That is not free will.

...

Well then.



I'll rephrase that. MOST people deserve acceptance. Please note: I would decline acceptance of a Nazi who had killed people, not one who simply believed in Nazi ideals. I'm Jewish, and I certainly don't agree with those ideals, but they're entitled to their opinion. Same with the Devil Worshipper©--and by the way, being a Devil Worshipper© is NOT synonymous with wanting to kill hundreds. If a person harms someone, they deserve to go to jail, because harming someone is unacceptable. Duh. What about all the missionaries who converted or killed? I wouldn't accept them, but it wouldn't be because they were missionaries: it would be because they had killed.



I agree, up to a point. When a society begins tolerating murder, rape, discrimmination, and oppression, moral fabric will understandably start to unravel. If the fibers that keep the majority of people safe and happy also make the minority at risk and unhappy, they were flawed fibers to begin with. Just because someone is in the majority does not make them better or worse than someone in the minority. I must not have made this clear before: acceptance should be pushed, not just tolerance. Of course, this is in a perfect world, and tolerance is better than outright lynching. What isn't?



Relevancy: Where?



Hm. Are you calling me a rabid minority spokesman? Or are you just saying that they exist? Because they do exist--and so do rabid majority spokesmen. The rabies usually gets them pretty fast, though. Sure, there are people who will complain when a Christian male jokes out loud with his friends about how this girl is such a lesbo, and this one is such a slut for wearing that skirt-must be 'cause she's Jewish; those same people who complain will probably call the males chauvinist pigs and anti-semitics. That party will have their complaints heard, and the Christian males will be resentful, because they were called names too, and can't they have their say? We've all been well-instructed in this day and age as to why the Christian males are wrong; but the other party is wrong too, if they attributed the chauvinism and anti-semitism to them being Christian males. Technically.




Quite the contrary. US politics are ruled by the majority thought of the Christian right, and this is why President Bush was elected and why Congress is so conservative these days. And I completely fail to understand why not offending the minority is so painful to the majority. If you truly, honestly can't bring yourself to think that homosexuality is right, okay. That's your opinion. There will be homosexuals who will be hurt and angry about that, but doesn't that happen anyway? You're entitled to your opinion, as I've said.



You would actually be injected with a lethal substance, unless you chose hanging via your lawyer. Hanging is illegal in 49 states right now. (Yeah, it's actually legal in Washington State, who knew?) If you're referring to laws which state that public institutions must allow any kind of religious symbol on its premises, I'd like to refer you to the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and various other legal documents that state that speak of the equality of humanity. And also to your common sense. Sure, these days some conservative Christians are getting dirt for their beliefs and customs.

Welcome to the club.

Nementh, all of this does of course assume that the christian perspective is the right moral fiber.

I'm not Christian and I agree with Nementh.

That wasnt my point Silvanus, I AM christian and I don't agree with him.

And I'm not, and don't agree with him. Religion is rather extraneous to the issue, I see.

I don't seem to understand this. I mean, if you're born into a Christian family, then in school you learn of the atrocities of the Crusades, you're not going to say that the ideals are wrong just because some people were radicals about them in the past. If you look at what naziism actually is, you'll notice that there are already a lot of nazis in America, they just don't know they're nazis. They only know what their ideals are, the history of those ideals regardless.