America, the world..

by Fain

Back to The Real World.

Silvanus2005-01-23 20:53:27
You seem to be mixing Fascism and Nazisim. I'm a Fascist, I'd rather not listen to most people and run ways I like it, but Nazism is against Jews, its pretty well explained in Hitler's "Mein Kampf." I detest what Hitler did, what he did on the world, and how racist he was against a religion, races, gays, and mentally disabled people. And anyone who thinks what Hitler did was right, should be shot in the head, killing 11.6 million people because of how they were born is insanity. Everyone has a choice, can I choose tomorrow to become a Christian who wishes to rid the world of Muslims? Yes. Can I choose tomorrow to believe that we are here because aliens came down and created us? Yes I can.
Unknown2005-01-23 20:54:32
On America:

Britain already has a wealth of experience of screwing up international relations and extensive Imperialism. Maybe it would have been different if Gladstone had more of a chance than Disreali and the people gave him, but it happened, and maybe people need to learn from the mistakes we made.

On Christian Moral Fiber:

We are of course the religion that slaughtered needlessly through several crusades, we persecuted every other religion we came across. We allowed, nay actively supported the slave trade. We actively destroyed local cultures and traditions. We do not have any high and mighty ground that makes us better than anyone else. Belief is the most dangerous weapon in the world.
Silvanus2005-01-23 20:59:49
On the topic of Christianity: Yes, every religion has done something similar to what Christianity has done. To accuse Bush of doing this because he is Christian is stupid really, the topic of getting more oil into America by invading Iraq is a better arguement then Bush being a hardcore Christian.
Unknown2005-01-23 21:01:49
Oh, if you thought that I was arguing against Bush and him being a christian that is not the case.

Bush made some silly mistakes, he has made some very good choices. He is the president, and he will make more silly mistake and more good choices, like every other leader in the world.

I am just a person that gets very wound up when I here my own faith getting all high and mighty.
Silvanus2005-01-23 21:02:51
I hate the fact that people call Bush a bad President. If someone ran an airplane into the two tallest buildings in your country and killed 3000 civilians who probably have never been to the area you are fighting for, what would you do?
Unknown2005-01-23 21:08:55
I didnt say he was bad...I said he was like every other leader, he has and will make mistakes, he is human we all do it.
Unknown2005-01-23 21:14:42
In the end I think it comes down to this. Would I have done things differently than Bush, probably. Would the outcome of my choices been better than the outcome of Bushes, almsot certainly not. No one in the world is a perfect leader, and when faced with unknown ground we all act differently. What matters is that you act, and Bush acted, he didnt just sit back and mull it over. Whether you think he made the right decision is your own choice.
Daganev2005-01-23 21:15:57
Actually you do have a choice.

The only people who don't have a choice over their actions and self identification are people who are physcially and mentally handicap. Some people are born with a tendancy to be cleptomaniacs. We don't say its ok for them to steal. Some people are born with OCD, they often come up with systems to help them deal in society.

I never understood why people get insulted when you group being homosexual with incest or Beastiality or even pedaphilia. Ofcourse there is a difference between having thoughts and doing actions. But if mormons decided to have a Poligimay day parade, they would not get favorable press coverage.

Also, if Homesexuality is not a choice a person has, why does it appear randomly in population groups and no connection is found between gay people and their parents or grandparents showing any sign of intrest in being gay? 10% of the population is gay... 10% of the population also believes Elvis is still alive. 10% of the population will believe and do any bizzare thing you can think of. Ofcourse, just because it is a choice, does not mean you need to descriminate such people in terms of economics or civil liberaties, but at the same time, I find it silly that they need "special protections and laws." Just because I dissagree with the choice, does not mean I think they should all be shot, but It also does not mean I don't recognize it as a choice.

About Iraq.... Why does everybody seem to forget the YEARS of negotiations with the UN and Saddam. Does everybody seem to forget that Sadam was consitantly violating the terms of his treaty with the No fly Zone? The numerous planes shot at? Saddam's intelegence told him that he was close to having nuclear weapons, and other WMDs. For some silly reason, the rest of the world believed this information. Saddam had attempted numerous times to get in contact with Terrorist organizations, and happily funded families who lost children who killed themselves being Suicide bombers. WMDs was the clincher, but was only one of MANY reasons to remove Saddam from power. Does nobody remember the deadline Bush gave Saddam to prevent war?

As for nation building... That tends to be the best strategy to ending war long term. WWI happened, nobody tried to rebuild the countries that got defeated.. the result? WWII started. After WWII, Germany and Japan went under large Nation rebuilding. The result? the U.S, Germany, Japan, and Britain and Frace are considered strong allies. When you break something, it is your responciblity to fix it.

If there is one thing I have learned about Bush, despite all my hopefull illusions that he was some master genious hiding as an idiot, is that he sticks to one concept and goes through with it. And I have yet to find a concept he has decided to go through with that I find distastefull or against the Constitution. He's not a one issue president, but when he comes up with an issue to discuss, it will remain in conversation untill action is taken on it.

As for Fox, the biggest fault I find with them is that they tend to focus on Kidnappings and courtcases more than interesting news. I don't find them to be any more bias or infactual than MSNBC, CNN, BBC, Reuters, AP, STAR or any other multinational news organization.
Unknown2005-01-23 21:22:35
QUOTE(Nementh @ Jan 24 2005, 09:23 AM)
Everything, EVERYTHING, decided after you are born is your choice, from day one. A one hour old baby has decision making abilities.

Everything you do, be it decide you are gay, or pick up a banner and shout hail hitler, it is your choice. That is human free will, you always have a choice.
34601


I don't believe that; but if it is true, I believe we only have one possible choice to make then. So, effectively, we have no choice.
Daganev2005-01-23 21:46:38
lets put it this way, if nobody has choice, then courts and laws and rights are very silly. Just kill the people who do things you don't like, and even then you don't havea choice about it, so it really doesn't matter.

If you only have choices about some things, then the same argument to a lesser degree can be made. Except instead of killing them, you move them to some island in the southern hemesphere and see if they can work together and those bizzare islands.

Reward and Punishment can only be given if you have a choice in the matter.
Unknown2005-01-23 21:55:42
A Polygamy Parade Day would get bad press because Polygamy is illegal. Being homosexual is not, and homosexuals do not have Incest Parade Days or any of the like. If you don't understand why that's offensive, you need help.

Homosexuality is NOT a choice, any more than falling in love is a choice. Do you choose with whom you fall in love? Does anyone? No. It just happens. Why is it so random? No one knows. You might find it silly that they need 'special protection and laws', but have you ever heard of a straight man getting lynched, beaten, or killed for being a straight man? Nope, doesn't really ring a bell. Go read The Laramie Project and use -your- brain, not someone else's.

Oh, and while you're at it, look up the Patriot Act and, if you can handle it, read it -carefully-. If that's not against the constitution, I don't know what is.
Silvanus2005-01-23 21:58:51
Camelia, I want you to go read the histories of what the Presidents did in times of war, like Woodrow Wilson's "Espionage and Sedition Acts of 1917/1918." Or Abraham Lincoln's war-time policies, with U.S. Grant and Sherman, believing in Total war and taking the fight to the civilians. Or go look at FDR's war-time policies in what they did to the Japanese in war time coasts. The freedoms we enjoy for most of our lives sometimes need to be forsaken when we are attacked and the peace of our nation is threatened.
Unknown2005-01-23 22:04:46
Thanks for reminding me about those. THEY WERE WRONG TOO. Did ANY of those actually save lives, or did they just end up hurting the people involved? The 1800's notwithstanding--I'd like to think that we've advanced by now. Just a little.
Silvanus2005-01-23 22:07:08
Yes they did save lives. If Sherman and Grant had not done that, then the war would've gone on longer. If Woodrow Wilson's acts did not happen, then USA military's actions would've been disrupted, and France would've been screwed. If FDR did not do his, well FDR's may have not been needed, but the phrase "better safe then sorry" comes to mind. You can't expect everything to be easy-go-lucky in life, our freedoms need to be breached on occasions to continue protecting our freedoms in 10 years from now. To not think that most likely means you are either under 18 and have never paid a bill in your life or worked bills, or you were somehow deported from US or from another country where the only Media you get about the US is bad news ontop of bad news.
Unknown2005-01-23 22:14:09
QUOTE(daganev @ Jan 24 2005, 10:46 AM)
lets put it this way, if nobody has choice, then courts and laws and rights are very silly.  Just kill the people who do things you don't like, and even then you don't havea choice about it, so it really doesn't matter.

If you only have choices about some things, then the same argument to a lesser degree can be made.  Except instead of killing them, you move them to some island in the southern hemesphere and see if they can work together and those bizzare islands. 

Reward and Punishment can only be given if you have a choice in the matter.
34680


That's why I see punishment as pointless. But I do believe in reward, because it helps encourage and motivate people, even though I believe we have no choice. Heh, this discussion is like Fate vs. Science; US Patriots vs. the World... again.

Courts and laws and right are very silly.

(Heheh, Camelia has a 0 post count.)
Unknown2005-01-23 22:29:15
( I know I do. It's screwy. glare.gif )

Yeah, tell 'better safe than sorry' to all the five year olds who got stuck in those camps. If you don't have a problem with your freedoms being breached, fine. I personally feel uncomfortable knowing that the government can look at my bills, can arrest me without a warrant, can tap my phone, search my house, and all without due cause. I'm really NOT feeling the love here. But then again, do I really have a choice? Nope. Well, I -could- leave. *sigh* Better the evils you know than the evils you don't, right? Which is why all my friends who are packing for Canada piss me off. NO OFFENSE TO CANADA. wub.gif
Unknown2005-01-23 22:31:05
Canada rules.
Silvanus2005-01-23 22:31:09
Yeah, sure I will, I'd suck it up, because I know a coutnry of 260 million people is more important then myself, and I'd rather protect those 260 million people then myself.
Shiri2005-01-23 22:31:51
The reason you don't have 0 posts is, if you look, because The Funnies, Meets and Greets, and The Real World "do not count towards total post counts." wink.gif So it's not screwy. happy.gif
Unknown2005-01-23 22:33:00
America wouldn't want to be saved by a single person, they'd save the world themselves :wink:.