Sorry, this doesn't make sense to me. Merloch != Serenwilde.

If we're talking about Serenwilde's feelings, in general, then yes the past war is a factor, regardless of whatever family ties have an additional influence on Merloch's personal feelings.

Edit:
And Merloch != the forest. If the forest, which Serenwilde protects and calls a home, is upset about liches, then Merloch's family ties are kind of irrelevant to that sentiment. On the other hand, Magnagora's efforts to use the fae and the Moon avatars for their own power might very well influence that sentiment.

Changes to the forest, do not happen because of the general feeling of the population, and numerous serenwilders have allready posted here that they do not like that serenwilde is moving in the direction it has. It happened because of some event. This event made the forest not like liches. The previous law that showed biase towards Celest, was allowing exceptions in the use of spores, unless your tainted. Both of these laws were stated and implemented by Merloch. Others might have had a say in the matter, but Serenwilde == 4 people who are the ruling council. Anything those 4 people do, Serenwilde does, any law those 4 people make, Serenwilde makes.

Using previous wars to explain why laws and events are being put into affect that will affect the game -forever- is just insulting.

If that were true in any shape or form, the forest would not be rejecting Liches it would be rejecting demons, and perhaps only demons that come from a gorgulu pact, as the other demons helped in stopping those Fae.

Just pretend your posting on an OOC board, I dare you.

We need fewer people who complain and more people who follow the leaders. If every issue is a matter of standing on one of a hundred sides (as no one ever sees 100% eye-to-eye with anyone else), nothing is ever accomplished. For the most part, I'm more than happy to follow my leaders' examples and do as they feel best. It's part of what some might call roleplaying. Your role cannot always be as an individual who likes to stand out and be heard. Sometimes your role is to follow and be a doer of deeds.

And if the forest were reacting to Merloch's personal goals, and those goals are based on family ties that have existed prior to the war, then why didn't it happen prior to the war?

I stated that we were all working on logical guesswork because none of us know the real reasons behind the forest's anti-lich sentiments yet. There have been unexplained holes in all of the relevant theories so far because of this.

And all of the theories have also had some sort of logical basis.

I'm just pointing out that, if you're going to go jumping to conclusions based on said guesswork, then you can jump either way.


Erm? I've remained just as OOC as you have.

What conclusions have I jumped to?

All I said is that this issue is not one about Magnagora. Its an issue for and about Serenwilde and its leanings towards celest. Now unless reading the topic heading is jumping to conclusions.. well then excuse me.

I then listed a few suggestions based on all possible combinations of the event that would help those in serenwilde who don't want to be so pro Celest to have a method of doing that.
Namely A. Find/develop a ritual that makes the forest become aware of traces of Celestia, and B. Discover for yourselves if Liches in the forest is a true problem or propaganda.


edit. The reason I said to dare to be ooc, is because your arguments sounded more like those of a ruler or spokesman trying to find excuses to do things rather than being arguments that actually explain whats happening.

Merloch does not speak for Serenwilde. He speaks for himself, and the moondancers, and Serenwilde should the concil deem it fit. His personal feelings do not reflect the feelings of others in the Wilde.

Let's not forget that spores were used by Magnagorans during the war as well.

It's easy to pin every action on bias just because the bias has been admitted. It's a bit harder to see that there may be logical reasons behind said actions as well. The former would fall under "jumping to conclusions", by the way

Edit:

Err.. My explanations, when stated with logical support, are categorized as excuses whereas your explanations are categorized as .. explanations?



Well, if you say so.

We're both making observations, and I at least definitely don't claim to be anybody's spokesperson except my own.

I don't think anybody thinks that Merloch's personal opinions reflect anybody else's personal opinions. However, Merloch is on the ruling council, and was the one who posted the laws that have set the mood.

I refer you to this post of his.

Why are you jumping down my back when Merloch said it first?

Dumihru you are truly hurting my brain.

Serenwilde was in a fight with Celest.
Serenwilde was in a fight with Magnagora.

How many laws target celest in a negetive fashion?
How many laws target Magnagora in a negetive fashion?
How many laws have loopholes Celest can use but Magnagora can't?
How many laws have loopholes Magangora can use but Celest can't?

Merloch has stated that the reason the laws are that way is because of his bias. There is no jumping to conclusions.

Actually, I am not sure if the laws have been entirely Merloch's doing. He may have possed his bias since forever, but it was actual events that could've promoted such seemingly biased laws.

During Celest's fae massacre episode, a lot of Serenwilde created a hate towards Celest. Especially after the small tainted girl fae, that was a byproduct of the whole affair. This had Magnagora and Serenwilde together. So Merloch, despite how biased and he may have been, wouldn't had been able to place any laws that reflect negatively towards Magnagora. It was thanks to the war, and any events that happened during the war, that gave way for such laws that seemingly turned Serenwilde against Magnagora. But these laws don't necessary favor Celest, you do not see any special privileges being issued for visitors of Celest in the Serenwilde.

So...
Serenwilde fights Celest
Serenwilde hates Celest.

Serenwilde fights Magnagora
Serenwilde hates Magnagora.

Just make Celest attack Serenwilde again, and Magnagora aiding Serenwilde and you will get the opposite of what is exactly going on right now. As things are right now, you can attribute any stance people are choosing, whether actual events did favor this or not, to post-war trauma. Serenwilde is no longer in war with Magnagora, but they still consider it a threat. Despite how horrible it seems, I believe this is the case.

grrrr... this has nothing to do with magnagora! again.. read Merloch's post, I provided a nice link for you. Notice the question... talks about ANGELS, merloch's answer.. "I hate the taint." Why do I feel like I'm the only one who thinks thats an abosulute non sequator that shows how he is trying to push things to help celest when he can?

Whatever, its not a commune I interact with often, if you live there and you can't see it then don't complain that Serenwilde is being "forced" towards the light.

Well, if we're going to be specific -

Celest pissed Serenwilde off via one stupid incident, which happened a long time ago and prior to the recent war.

Magnagora started an all-out war. It killed all 3 moon avatars. In addition, it not only killed fae and chopped down trees but also raised Crow, extinguished the Flame of Glinshari, tried to kill White Hart, killed guards repeatedly, enslaved colts. They corrupted the fae to create hordes of tainted fae. All of this drew Serenwilde into a war, leading to severe power losses as well as repeated deaths. And this -just- happened.


Do you think that Merloch can pass laws at a whim without any other basis, when the entire council knows that he has a bias?

Or maybe the recent war is going to have some lasting effects. Isn't that what's expected to happen after a long, drawn-out war that resulted in the deaths of many commune members?

Merloch stated that he had a bias. He never stated that this was the direct reason for the anti-lich law. In fact, it has been stated multiple times that that law was put into place at the request of the forest spirits.

We don't know why the spirits feel that way yet.

That the anti-lich sentiment comes directly after the attempts to create a race of tainted fae, kill White Hart, etc. might not be a coincidence.

I'm impressed, you both were able to avoid any question I asked, and keep on changing the subject. You sure your not running for office in serenwilde via these forums?

It has nothing to do with Magnagora?

We are talking about how Serenwilde seems to be constantly forced to ally with a second party, be it Celest or Magnagora. We have been talking how through diverse events Serenwilde has changed it's alliance, influenced by those events. So basically, Magnagora is involved. Because somehow, after the war, it gave people like Merloch the opportunity to create completely biased laws, and actually get support. The most recent war targetting liches, and surprisingly most if not all liches are from Magnagora, and it seems like there are some people from said city who view that law as anti-them, but without any repercussion towards Celest.

My point is, if you wish to have a completely neutral Serenwilde, then both cities should simply avoid to have conflicts against Serenwilde. Or else, Serenwilde will side with any part they find the more convinient to parter with. In the case of the war, Serenwilde sided with Celest, I really don't know if the alliance was fruitful or not. But there you had a Serenwilde not taking sides, but switching sides as they previously favoured Magnagora. Anything that makes Serenwilde change side is in direct link to whatever Serenwilde goes through.

Edit: Made a small correction/addendum


Let me be clear, the war with Magnagora actually provided biases like Merloch's take root. If it hadn't been for the war, Merloch would be free to hate the Taint/demons/Magnagora/liches, as much as he wanted... but he wouldn't had been able to make any laws promoting any kind of bias against those things. It was thanks to the events that happened during the war, that Merloch took the advantage to aim some law against liches, be it if the forests did actually react in a weird way towards liches or not.

Just for an example. If I were to describe the two fights serenwilde had with the cities, and I was trying to give Magnagora a good spin and Celest a bad one, I would do the following.

Celest, attempting merely to damage and hurt other members of the Basin, raided Faethorn, Killed fae and proceded to Taint them and make them sick. All done while Serenwilde was still planting its roots and never attempted to appologize for hurting another, meanwhile, Magnagora came to Serenwilde's aide to save the poor child.

After Serenwilde ignored all village and trade agreements with Magnagora, despite being given a village, Magnagora attempted to bring a new life to the Basin to help spread and grow that which Magnagora knows to be its true source of its strength. In the end, the Moonspirits became stronger, Serenwilde more united, and the forests better defended against future attacks.

Now, as a Serenwilder, I propose the following laws after each fight.

No Angels may be allowed in Faethorn.
No Demons may come near the moon spirits or the great hart.
Spores can only be used by Serenwilders, no exceptions.

Desdemona, I would please suggest you go up to the top of the thread and read the following.



Do you like the Wilde's growing alignment to the "light"?


Is there a reason people don't read?

Edit: and now that I read the rest of your post... I would like to make a small suggestion. Celest joined Serenwilde's side, not Serenwilde joining Celest's side. So far, the only thing Celest has done for Serenwilde is cheer them on.

Daganev just likes posting, y'all ignore him.

Now, don't make Magnagora appear as if were a benevolent altruistic spirit. Magnagora helped Serenwilde when Celest ruined everything with the commune, because I am pretty sure it was to their convinience. During the war, Celest, for it's convinience decided to side with Serenwilde, and the commune considering something to their favor agreed on an alliance, loose or tight. The fact is, the alliance was a convinience. Suddenly making Magnagora appear as the villain, and whatever is Magnagora related to be considered evil. These is the part where suddenly people are forced to turn to alignments.

But be assured, that even if the Moon Spirits became stronger... it would have been immensely more preffered if the entire war hadn't happened. Why? Because as someone from the Serenwilde, I can add-up more negative things than positive things during and thanks to the war: communemates dying, Moonspirits dying, constat raids, White Hart in danger, and most importantly Magnagora raising Crow, WHEN Magngora knew how threatening Serenwilde considered it to be.

To be honest, even if you may not like it, seemingly one-sided laws like the lich law exist because Magnagora helped out. The day Celest decides to war with Serenwilde, I am sure Serenwilde would treat Celest the same way, and maybe you would see Serenwilde ban angels, too. Let's just see who screws up with Serenwilde, in the future. Then you will see whether the bias remains or changes.

Would a neutral Serenwilde been more ideal? Yes, but now you can see how this idea is quickly turning simply onto an idea.

---
Just a small idea on how I would've liked Serenwilde's feelings towards both cities be:
Serenwilde an arms dealer, Celest and Magnagora being two countries at war. Serenwilde goes: Here Celest, take this nuclear bomb to help you in your war. You too Magnagora, we can't leave you with nothing so take this WMD with you. Then I would expect both cities to simply blast each other, clean my hands and continue with my affairs. But because conflicts, for some reason, drag Serenwilde... Serenwilde is constantly changing sides. A note for future notice: don't drag Serenwilde around, at least not until Serenwilde find's a direct counterpart active (Glomdoring).

The fact that Merloch is drawn toward Celest because of his sister, is perfectly acceptable from an Rp point of view.

On a totally unrelated subject
Audacity is a formidable tool against those who can't made up their mind

The problem is Do you guys serenwilde's players have a strong, accurate and pertinent idea about how the Serenwilde of your dreams should be?

If not, then one day you wake up with talking trees and unable to say if it's a or a