There is no "event" regarding liches and forests. Everything surrounding that is wholly made up from player actions.

In any event, a lot of what people are saying is that Celest or Magnagora or Serenwilde "should" be this or "should not" be that. Really, its up to the collective players to determine the RP of their organizations. If it's not being RP'ed how you particularly want, then that means there must be others who DO want it to be RPed in that manner. If you have strong feelings about the matter, I suggest you RP within the organization towards the direction you want it to go.

Desdemona, again, you succeed in completly missing my point. I said in the paragraph above the section you quoted that I was writing the events with a spin, similiar to how Dumihru was writing with a spin.

Again, I point people to my orginal post where I gave simple suggestions on how Anti-celest elements of Serenwilde can help prevent Serenwilde from becoming Pro Celest.

Yeah, but what you are missing is that old anti-Celest sentiments that existed have been replaced by more pro-Celest ones. Or at least people have suddenly grown a recentment towards Magnagora, and all this thanks to the war. Now, thanks to the commune being more and more controlled by a central government, this central government can issue whatever they please and have close to no contestation from the rest of Serenwilde. So, right now, any laws issued, etc. you can blame the war for it. That is how I see it. Celest will just make the best of it, by remaining unaffected.

Edit: Just so you may know. I voted NO on the poll. Because as I stated before, I think Serenwilde should've remained neutral. So, in an OOC stance, I do not care, IC I think that whatever conflicts emerged with Magnagora that made up for a bad relation can be mended, but I believe nothing can be done when the actual facts give way to a bias, and I have no way to manipulate the government.

What really bugs me, is not that Serenwilde made this law. Things come and go.

Its that they lied about making it.

Gregori posted on these OOC forums quite a few times .. "I was there, the forest complained, what ele am I suppose to do?" Completely ignoring the fact that the forests are not sentient. Only certain trees have this spiritual connection. They even seemed to try to blame the administraion for Pushing them into it.


The fact that the forest would become upset with Liche's makes no IC sense whats so ever. If anything, it would be Demons. And even then, theres really no explanation why the forests would care about one Cosmic being but not the others. The forests experience the bloodshed of weevils all the time, does it suddenly not care about that?


I'm fairly convinced, that if you got enough illusionists, we could get all of serenwilde declaring it illegal to hunt weevils or any other animal in the forest because the Trees cry when they see blood.



To better explain the point of me writing those paragraphs with Pro Magnagoraian spins.

A leader of an Org can move its community in any direction they see fit. Thats kindof the definition of being "leader."

To say that the direction of the organization can be blamed on anything but the leaders is silly. You want to say its because of Magnagora that the laws are the way they are. But the truth is if the Serenwilde Leadership wanted to maintain a pro Magnagorian, or even a non anti Magnagoran relationship, it would have been entirely possible, war or no war.


Call me crazy, but I don't see Celest, Magnagora, and Serenwilde as these amorphous blobs that have thier own will. I see them as collections of people, which generally contain 4 or 5 members that dictate the opinions and views of all the others.

Question that I think is quite important in this argument:

Can Fae be 'brought into the light' while the Flame is still burning? If so, then I see a big distinction in terms of which side the Serenwilde is 'meant' to lean towards.

With the parallel question of whether Fae can be taken to Gorgulu and turned into imps while the Flame is still burning?

And Daganev -
Even if I listed out every little detail of both transgressions to avoid being accused of putting a subjective "spin" on events, it would be obvious that Magnagora's war caused far more damage and had far more support from the city as a whole.

And you've missed the point of the timeline that Desdemona mentioned. The all-out war that Magnagora started -just- ended. For the characters, the memories of the bloodshed, the twisted fae, etc. should be burned into their memories like it happened yesterday.

To blame any lingering bad feelings towards Magnagorans so soon after the war on one person's personal bias is not a little.. biased.. in itself.

Whinge whinge whinge some more, please; it makes me happy at 10 in the morning.

This is a game where we are playing at running city states and hippy communes, biased laws are perfectly fine and a legit use of RP. If you have a problem with it then raise that in the game, what is the point of bitching here?

Yes, they can be turned to imps while the Flame is still burning, and no they cannot be tainted while the Flame is burning.

While whinge is a word, that is an improper use of it. 'Whine' would be grammatically correct in that context.

In British English, and I have to assume Aussie English too, whinge is perfectly good in that sentence. As much so as whine anyway.

And I'll assume Silvanus means converted into Taintfae rather than...Tainted. Because turning them into imps sounds like Tainting them to me.

Where did we lie? We said the Forests flipped out about liches being there. By Forests we meant those spirits in the forest. We don't know why they did it, just that they did it.

A quiet wind winds its way through the trees, tinged with ethereal magic.
The wind, strangely thick and textured wraps around Merloch's head briefly.
A soft rumbling gradually grows stronger around you.
The trees sway threateningly, but the rumbling beneath the earth begins to subside.

Merloch also said they told him "No Liches shall be suffered in the forests."

Could this all have been illusion? Certainly. Did we at the time have the option of dismissing something that if you live in the Serenwilde you know happens at times. That being the Spirits contacting us and informing us of their wishes. No, we did not. We acted on what the Spirits of the Forest seemed to have decreed.

We did not lie about anything. We acted on the information we had at hand. If Daevos had a vision from something he trusted that said no Fae in Magnagora, I am sure he would make a law saying no fae in Magnagora.

ok, then your all just idiots.

I wish I remembered that line from "Life of Brian."

First of all, please explain; 'whinge' is practically the same as 'whine' where I am from. Secondly, get over trying to feel smart.

From my understanding, he had divine assistance in this little "event". So how does it mean it's player actions? It means that one of the Divine, agrees with the path Merloch is trying to take.

I mean there is no official "event" regarding forests and liches. It is my understanding that the alleged "divine assistance" was misinterpreted. But, even if that wasn't the case, the gods can and do have opinions and players are free to agree, disagree or be ambivalent. (Unless you prefer not to have active gods at all.)

Not so much agreed, but helped force that path by using their divine ability to do area wide illusions and room emotes and such.

I don't think you are forced down that path. Like I said before, bring a lich into the forest and when nothing happens, you can do something about it, if you want to do something about it.


Just because you see visions and such, doesn't mean its real.

Policy based off of a one time event that is not a recuring threat is just silly.

Honestly, Daganev..In -that- aspect, you're saying that you expect a hard code feature, to mean something is real.

Like a hard code feature to make the forest have effects when a lich is around.

Which..honestly..is just..wrong.

I think I would investigate to see why it happened now, and has not happened in the decades prior to the event. It's not as if a Lich walked in and started burning down the forests, then I would wholeheartidely agree with it.


If what the admins are saying is true...then there is some player(s) out there who RP'd the liches were hurting the forest. I don't doubt their statement, so does anyone in the Serenwilde know anything of this? I've talked to a few and so far, none do...heck even the Seneschal seems a bit confused. My question is, was this a majority of the Seren RP'ing this, or was it just the group that did had a massively compelling argument.

How could one expect anything that far reaching and encompassing to NOT be hard coded if it is real.

Your not claiming that the people of serenwilde don't like Liches, your claiming that the TREES don't like liches.