And because of this OOC forethought, all rp-based motivations are invalid?

maybe RP was the wrong choice of words. Mortal RP would be better.

What do spirits know of alliances and recent events vs events that happened 100 years ago?

Sometimes, everything.

Then why liches and not Demons?

Give it time

Not to mention..

Demons are already banned. Maybe the Spirit in question knew this?

Ok, thats not a responce.

Please explain to me what anything has had to do with undeath in the recent years that might explain a sudden change in feeling?

The only thing I can think of, is that undead things killed other things in the forest. Well, lots of things kill other things in the forest, and that doesn't seem to change anything. Celestians killed people in the forest, Rogues kill things in the forest. And I'm sure undead creatures killed other creatures for centuries in the forest with no change to the "spirits."

Glomdoring even shows that forests and undead can live in perfect harmony. The only difference there would be the Greater spirits, which appears to not be the case here, but rather the lesser tree spirits that we are talking about.

Sorry, I have to take exception there. Tainted 'forest' and undead can live in perfect harmony. Maybe because the forest itself is in a state close to undeath too?

Is your argument that if we find ways to improve our organization's rp, we shouldn't try them at all because the way it is now is the way it should always be, short of a realm-wide event? I can't really see any argument against the fact that the spirits wouldn't like undeath, only that Serenwilde changed it now.

You said it - the problem is that Serenwilde changed it (now).

So...we should stay the same forever and ever. The end?

Got news for you. If Serenwilde decided to ban all red heads from Serenwilde. That is our right. Not the best of laws, but definately our right.

It doesn't matter when we changed, why we changed, or if you think it is fair. Ultimately, it is our choice on what laws we make or do not make and who they affect.

Your right to make stupid laws, our right to call you stupid for it.

I still havn't heard any explanation for why a forest would hate liches.

Quidgyboo, no you don't have to stay the same forever and ever, but maybe you should have some valid reaspons for what you do, and give time between doing outrageous things. Wow 10 years, now the plants have become less adaptive to the environement around it.

As far as I remember, its humans who get more sick the longer they are exposed to things, and plants and animals who become stronger and evolve to adapt and become stronger the more they are exposed to things.

Because liches rhymes with snitches and everyone hates a snitch.

I think the problem stemmed from two things: The fact that it happened all of a sudden despite years of no issue and that it was first blamed on divine interference by now just looks like horrid RP.

First point. You are right, you have the absolute authority to make laws however you see fit and likewise. But please have some form of explanation beyond, "The forest didn't want them" as the reason for such a law. By that I mean, inform citizens of this and back it up with something so they can defend the law if they are questioned about it. The response I got from the first person I asked there, who is a minister was, "I have no idea why it was implemented so quickly, pretty stupid in my opinion but then again it was Merloch's vision". Someone pointed out what would Mag do if Daevos came up with something like that, I honestly believe we would question it. Hell, we were questioning killing Gorgulu when Luciphage was screaming at us...so why in the hell would we fear questioning our Emperor? If the trees were pissy, and you guys investigated further and came up with the fact that it truly was the liches pissing them off and there was a foundation as to why at this moment....then make that law. You have an argument to back it up, and no one can bitch at you. We were just at war, with Liches killing city guards, and the trees said absolutely nothing. All of a sudden..."BTW, can you get the liches out, we don't like them."

Second point. The initial posting made it sound like divine intervention, and then the light dawned that it seemed more like personal RP coming from Merloch. Didn't I hear the Seren complaining a little while back about how we blindly follow the ideas of Daevos in Mag? Seems like the same kind of thing is following suit in the forests as well. If you want to play the third party in the world, and remain the "we love forest" group, then play it equally. If someone has just RP'd that the forests hate liches, take a step back, realize that is going to look bad and RP something that Celest brings with them that the forests can hate. Ban both...remain neutral to both, and move on. Bending to the ideals of one person is no worse than what we are doing over here, and you seem to have many rants about that from time to time as the "will of daevos".


Just my 2 cents from the outside.

Actually you can kill a plant by exposing it to diseases and sickness in small quantities over many years. A plant can slowly wither and die if the soil has just a little too much salt in it, for example. Think of Liches as salt . Or Phytophthora Root Rot, that kills plants slowly too. Oh and Pinyon Pine...and I'm done now.

I don't think you can get a concept more directly opposed to the philosophy of a people that revere nature than an extreme artificial state which halts all natural processes in the midst of decay. It does make sense the nature spirits of Serenwilde wouldn't want such creatures in their forest, and the fact that undeath is often a by-product of tainted magics (that already destroyed one commune) can't help either.

As I've said before, I think this has a very strong rp foundation, but its the timing that is causing such an outcry from Magnagoran players.

I agree, if that had been the reasoning and response...we could complain but it would have foundation from your end. It came out though as Merloch and/or divine did this, and we all jumped and ran with it.Both scenarios upset as us it seemed like again the divine turned the Wilde against us, or you guys listened to one person and his delusional RP events.

I would have loved to have seen you play it from the angle you stated above, and perhaps you still can to salvage it as semi-decent RP. The problem now stands that I think the wounds are already open...as in is there anything Mag can do that will not piss someone off? Now us just walking around upsets the forest.

What makes me laugh is how you all sit here and argue that we are bent, when since before this topic was even started, Merloch, Gregori, Niara and I have been discussing the Lich thing, and some other of our more "pro" celest rulings. Alyssandra despises the light as much as she hates the taint, and is doing everything she can to stop the appearance of favouritism to celest. Because that is all it is, it is an appearance. For either side to think we care about them more than for immeadiate gain for the forest, would be incredibly naive.

Daganev, do you now understand why I, at one point, stopped argueing logically and just started calling everyone retards?

I guess I'm just confused here, what exactly is the 'immediate gain for the forest' you get by banning Liches?

In the meantime, you've:
1. Permanently hurt relations with Magnagora in a way that I'm not sure how you retract without directly countering the 'desires of the spirits.' Note, this is a nearly/potentially PERMANENT result of whatever 'immediate gain' you referenced in the quoted passage.
2. Outlawed the trans members of 2/3 of Magnagora from entering your commune without dying (possibly twice if they happen to be a lich and have lichdom active)(lets not even count the power lost). Gee, glad I didn't buy a shop there! Congratulations, Serenwilde shop owners, a bunch of those grubbing cityfolk you like to make money off of can't shop at your store! Don't ever expect massive Magnagoran help defending the Wilde from unforseen threats. Politicians, negotiators, ambassadors who are liches can't even be let in, unless you're willing to hurt the forest just a little bit for the sake of your own political expediency.
3. It is unlike a Magnagoran law vs. Fae in that 2/3 of your PC citizens aren't fae, and entourages can be left behind without causing experience loss. Similarly with angels. No similar law can be set that would actually ban citizens.
4. Don't you all claim Faethorn as well? Guess how well it is going to go over when you start enemying ur'guard who have to pass through there to get to the elemental planes because of restrictions built into the warrior archetype. I do it all the time. Go ahead, enemy me. I'll earn it later.