This is something that I have always been curious about. I know that the Light is something that both the Empire and Celest followed, that guides them to do good things, but what are its actual teachings? Is it about compassion and love, and all things nice? Or is it more explicit?

I also understand the historical reasons for Celest's animosity towards Magnagora, but I don't think the cause for disagreement is as strong as the one between Serenwilde and Magnagora, so thats another thing I'm curious about. In an abstract sense, I've always found it somewhat strange that Light is treated as the antithesis of Taint, since to my eyes Light seems more directly opposed to evil, than Taint (which is more the antithesis of nature).

Am I hopelessly confusing all these concepts, or does anyone understand what I'm asking here?

I think you're seriously mixing some things up there.

Well, the Celestians see the Taint as evil, so either way it still makes sense. After all, look at the Demon Lords, and how sadistic Tainted people tend to become (it says something to that effect in the histories), and you can see why it would be considered evil by such a fanatical city.

You're not getting his point. The concept of Light existed before Taint. Before the Taint Wars, people would say, "By the Light." Therefore you can't say "Light is the opposite of Taint." Well, maybe the meaning has changed in modern days. But what did it USE to mean?

The Light was all that existed prior to Kethuru.

Shallamar and Celestia both had beings (Emanations and Supernals, respectively). These beings were bound to their planes and were full of Love and Light. (Light here is defined as radiance, desire to help others, improve, etc.)

Kethuru came andtouched Shallamar. The Holy Emanations were converted into the Demon Lords.

This caused the Taint to want to slay Celestia, jealous of their Light.

Light seeks to end Taint because it is an abomination, and because it's their fault it's here.

That's my thoughts on it, anyway

I am getting the point just fine. I was referring to Elryn's point of the Light originally being anti-evil (which most "good" things sort of are by definition), and pointing out that in modern times the Taint is the main "evil" force in Lusternia, so the Light naturally turns against it.

The Supernals themselves embody the Light, you've said love, so that leaves strength, hope, and wisdom. And Unity, if you want to call Elohora that, some do. A -BIG- task at the beginning of the game was trying to get people to drop the love and peace crap and remember that there are four other Supernals (or that the Supernals even exist, in the case of Amaya and the Celestines.)

We're not about being good, we're about those 4 ideals, anything that the Supernals ask of us, destroying the Taint, and then after all that, we're just sane people. (read: no murdering villagers just because you like murder.) Doesn't leave a lot of room for textbook evil people.

The Light isn't the opposite of the Taint, unless you go strictly by the ability to trade power back and forth with our quests. The Taint is just annoying goo. You might be able to make a case for the religion of the Demon Lords being opposite to ours, though admittedly I haven't had much chance to talk to them.

Think of it from an OOC perspective as a combination of soft, compassion style 'goodness' and more aggressive, crusading 'goodness' from traditional fantasy settings. It's a broad ideology, with different aspects represented by the different Supernals. That means that several people's take on it can be different, but they are all still valid. You wouldn't expect a follower of Raziela to react in the same way as a follower of Methrenton to a given situation.

Judge, Crusader, Light, Compassion, Defender. I'm guessing the Light did change with the existence of the Taint as the Emanations, who stood for other teachings of the Light, were twisted and warped, and turned on their former worshipers and became Demon Lords. So, the Light lost half of itself to the Taint, and the Taint wants whats left of the Light. Anyone recall what the Emanations stood for again?

Sheesh... I'm surprised after so many posts nobody has has mentioned this, well one almost did.

There are 5 supernals, there are 5 demon lords.

Light: Supernals are love, strength, hope, unity and wisdom. (assuming eldril is correct and I have no reason to think he isn't)

Modern Taint: Demons are Torture, strength, Hate, Deception, and rage. (Assuming I'm right, I don't spend much time with demon lords)

I put those in order so Light.1 (Love) corresponds to Taint.1 (Torture) That is why the Taint and the Light appose eachother.

Both the light and taint have basis in the Cosmic plane, and so both come from something that does not mix well in nature and tends to over come it. Both the Taint and the Light have aspects that nature would agree with, and aspects it would not agree with. Love for example in the Light, is an unatural love, one that means you do not hurt ANY lifeform, even for food. Torture is the only Taint aspect that I think does not really exist in NAture, because in this case its Torture for the aesetic sake of torture. It has no goal. Just as the Love aspect has no goal.

Hate has no part in nature either. I'd argue that rage doesn't either, but I'm on a lot shakier ground there. Whereas love is, it's just taken to extremes by the Light (and as you'd have noticed if you'd been there a while back, Raziela can lay on the hurt when she really wants.)

I'm guessing here, but I think the emanations stood for Beauty, restraint, leadership and can't for the life of me figure out what Ashtorath or baalphegar would be.

Hate as opposed to Unity, and animals hate eachother all the time. Especially the territorial ones. When razelia lays on the hurt, its not because she wants to, its because we give her lots of dead corpses and it makes her go crazy. Mountains have no feelings one way or the other, but when they fall on you, they hurt.

I don't think love exists in nature, I think only nurturing does. You don't find animals giving tiny gifts to other animals just because they want to show them they care or they can't stop thinking about them. But I guess thats another argument neither here nor there.

Bravery/boldness/strength of character and...wisdom and subtlety?

EDIT: No, hate is not involved in that. Territory and stuff might mean they get angry at an intrusion, but there's no capacity for real hate.

hmm, your probabbly right, Hate was the wrong word. When I put down Hate, I was thinking of the opposite of unity, but not deviciveness. The type of hate that seperates me from you for no reason, and not because I dislike what you stand for, but because I don't know who you are and you are not me.

The type of definition of Hate that falls under Hate crimes. Not the type of hate that falls under what happens when someone who is close to you betrays you.

Maybe it was like in the Enlightenment age? Old Celest was an united kingdom, following moral code defined by Supernals, and it's people were in pursuit of knowledge and discoveries. 'Light' would mean enlightenment then, conviction that people were uncovering more and more secrets of the world and concidered themself knowledgable. Supernals were like moral guides, helping in keeping society lawful and united in order to achieve higher goals.

I hope it's understandable

I'm not sure about the rest of the demon lords, but Gorgulu was associated with peace as Gorgaliel. (known as the Peacemaker or something of the sort, I think)

I like the reasoning of Typhus

It hints that the Emanations had their own identities and were not mere duplicata of the Supernals.

But it goes also for the other cosmic planes. one could not boldly affirm that the Light embraced all the cosmic planes, although i admit the planes seemed at peace with each other, it doesn't mean that they shared the same philosophy or the same appeal to the influence of Light

And if the elemental planes have any influence on their respective cosmic planes, then it could be deduced that the Cosmic Plane of Nil formely known as Shallamar is not in true opposition to the Cosmic plane of Light known as Celestia.

And as twisted and warped might the cosmic plane of Nil have become, the cosmic plane, host of the true Evil, has yet to be found. And the key might even be located deep in Celestia.

Ashtorath, before the Taint, was known as the Duke of the Bell-Towers, and was beautiful and had a voice that was said to have been able to charm the Gods. The only mentioned I have found of Baalphegar was when Luciphage called him a "snivelling goat."

The Light is, basically, the power that exists/existed on Celestia and Shallamar. The taint corrupted that power into something else, something that wants to corrupt Celestia as well, and they basically don't want that.