A moondancer basically can't be killed on the prime plane, and a moondancer with bedevil is almost impossible to kill for anyone who isn't a knight. I really don't think they need upgrades.

This post is in response to Drago’s previous post.

To begin, the argument that lichdom is somehow nullified by eye sigils is absurd. Given that Nihilists can be enchanters and therefore obtain the ability to zap a sigil for a mere 2p, this should never be an issue. Furthermore, the argument holds far more weight theoretically than in reality. Eye sigils are not free nor are the flame sigils to go with them. Given how easy they are to taken down, eye sigils are only practical in heavily fortified areas (inside a commune or city, etc). Thus in 80% of Lusternia, lichdom will likely get the target to safety.

As for power loss, I recall Daevos using lichdom around 10 times in one month. I have seen several others push towards this number. Whereas Daevos does have an unlimited power supply, I realize this only applies to people in his position. Interestingly, the recent change in power (making it far easier to obtain for cities and communes) only exacerbates the issue. If desired, Magnagora could easily take a power hit during a massive raid or invasion and let its citizen lich as much as they needed.

Regarding Resurgem ability in Moon, the experience loss is hefty. Unlike other forms of resurrection, I’ve lost at much as 15-25% with Resurgem. Had I prayed, I would have lost 40-50%. Furthermore, Resurgem is -easily- stopped. Celestines and Paladins can last rite a corpse whereas Nihilists and Ur’guard can eat a corpse, and finally Geomancers can fossilize.

My single biggest qualm with lichdom is that lichseed remains intact even if the player who cast it quits (or so I hear). I guarantee you, Drago that I burn through more power using Drawdown than you have ever used with lichdom. Every single time I log on, I have to drawdown. With lichseed, it remains until it is used.

And whereas this thread is not about Trueheal, I would like to say that I am almost certainly that you can beckon someone who has prismatic barrier which will cause it to fade. Be creative, I’m sure you can find ways around it. However, the point I would like to address is that lichdom is INSANELY powerful for bashing. I think this is one legitimate area where the skill is overpowered (and furthermore, most high level bashers bash in Astral... it isn’t as if 20p means anything).

Regarding the necromancy as a whole, I do feel you raise a very legitimate point regarding necromancy for Ur’guard versus necromancy for Nihilists. Imagine if you will, a Brood Viscanti Ur’guard, full platemail, various enchantments and defenses, surge, putrefaction (and whoever said putrefaction is useless should be taken out and beaten, it gives 33% damage reduction). I’ve seen Daevos easily tank 10 city or commune guards. I sincerely object this. Whereas putrefaction is very nice (and fair) for a Nihilist, it is way too much for Ur’guard.

There has been some discussion that Wrack is crap to Absolve. I would like to clarify. A Celestine cannot leech mana. They have amissio which borders on useless. Leech, however, is extremely potent and extremely fast. Furthermore, it ensures the caster maintains a high mana level. And as we all know, a demon can be set to shackles and whore web. Furthermore, a Nihilist with tarot can stack hangedman + web. I do realize that these methods are different to pull off but certainly no more difficult than absolve for a Celestine.

Sacrifice is rather bleh. There is just no way to argue otherwise.

Soulless is extremely powerful and should not be so readily ruled out. With carcer, shackles, hangedman, fall, etc. it is indeed possible. In fact, I have always speculated that Jelaludin would be extremely scary with Tarot and Soulless. I’m really glad he took hexes!

Regarding crucifix, I will wholeheartedly agree that it isn’t so great for a Nihilist. However, it kicks ass for a bonecrusher Ur’guard. For example, Morslade can damn near permanently knock me off balance. With ectoplasm, it is extremely easy for him. Once I have accumulated 5-10 seconds of off balance (and for the record, I have pushed upwards to 5-8 minutes off balance), he tramples, crucifixes, and laughs at me while I slowly wither away because I cannot writhe crucifix until my balance returns in which time I can be killed by newbie kick... *peer Roark*

As for cannibalize mana and health, these are again remarkably useful. Sudoxe and Aajen both have a very nasty habit of cannibalizing health when I’m going for toad curse. This is a very quick fix to a bad situation. Even with half health, my moonburst is no more likely than a newbie kick to kill either of them. Eventually, this strategy caves in because of the power cost, etc. but in the short-term, it works well.

For the record, I would like to state that Feed could be extremely powerful if used against the right opponent. For example, Aquamancers have no method to slow down feed. Feed is extremely fast as well. I have seen Kaervas take down some rather nasty opponents by just whoring feed. All it takes is one lapse of consciousness to toss Soulless tarot and it is all over.

And how exactly did you become guild envoy when you don’t know your own skills?



Ghosting is not impeded by eye sigils on the ground. Supposedly, you can fling an eye sigil at the ground and force a ghost back to corporeal form. I have tried this on multiple occasions and it has never worked. If this is the case, what stops the person from just triggering to re-ghost? Once again, eye sigils are not cheap or free. Furthermore, ghosting is what allows Magnagora to raid effectively. How difficult is it to walk outside a village, ghost and by pass guards, look for a weak spot in defenses, pick off some miners or whatever, teleport out (hermit, teleport nexus, lust/empressed out, etc.)... or if you are a Viscanti with massive int, you have the willpower to burn and re-ghost outside the village and go from there.