Erion2005-02-02 02:48:05
QUOTE(Etanru @ Feb 1 2005, 10:47 PM)
I'd like it if...
1.) You could not bash denizens loyal to organizations.
2.) Kaileigh's idea. You have no suspects.
1.) You could not bash denizens loyal to organizations.
2.) Kaileigh's idea. You have no suspects.
40512
Tuek's!
Estarra2005-02-02 03:02:14
No matter what we do to make PK more attractive on non-prime planes, it isn't going to magically make aggressive people stop killing others on the prime. If you think otherwise, you are indeed living in a happy fantasy land, my friend.
Anyway, yes, we can include some of the qualifiers that some of you have brought up. No, it's not like grace but more like a shield as someone else pointed out. Yes, we can adjust with how long it is up.
BTW, which post has Tuek's idea that everyone liked? I couldn't find it.
Could someone expand on the idea of rewarding people who don't PK? I didn't really understand how that could be done.
Regarding the sly comments that the Avenger system is bugged, the only issue we are aware of is regarding entities (which is being looked at). If there's other issues and no one tells us, then we aren't going to be able to address it.
There's another idea we've been throwing around to address excessive PK (an idea spawned by these forums), but I'll keep that under my hat for now until discussion of this idea has been exhausted.
Anyway, yes, we can include some of the qualifiers that some of you have brought up. No, it's not like grace but more like a shield as someone else pointed out. Yes, we can adjust with how long it is up.
BTW, which post has Tuek's idea that everyone liked? I couldn't find it.
Could someone expand on the idea of rewarding people who don't PK? I didn't really understand how that could be done.
Regarding the sly comments that the Avenger system is bugged, the only issue we are aware of is regarding entities (which is being looked at). If there's other issues and no one tells us, then we aren't going to be able to address it.
There's another idea we've been throwing around to address excessive PK (an idea spawned by these forums), but I'll keep that under my hat for now until discussion of this idea has been exhausted.
Erion2005-02-02 03:03:55
Team PK, to my knowledge, is still not recognized by Avechna. As to rewarding no PK, that's rediculous IMO, but, whatev.
Drago2005-02-02 03:04:51
This one I think.
Edit: Ok, that didn't work:
The Specific Idea was probably this one -
Edit: Ok, that didn't work:
QUOTE
To abuseable, to restrictive, and to illogical. I know it has been stated that PK is meant to happen off prime, on the other planes, but there is little reason for it to ever happen on those planes. All the villages exist on prime, all of the cities exist on prime, not everyone can travel to planes at will, and almost all the "harmful" quests exist on prime. Planes are fine if you randomly want to kill people, but who wants to randomly kill people? Generally there is a specific person you are after, and the only place they will be accessible is prime. Give us a reason to be there, other then to bash, many consider it distasteful to attack others who are hunting.
Edit: If it were implemented, It'd have to take a minute or longer to activate, and it must require that you be at your nexus to activate it. Also, I'd say it'd be a no go if you are suspected to anyone at all, or have a timer so that if you attacked someone in the past 5 days, you cannot activate it, or something. Also, a power cost of 10 sounds much more reasonable. Influencing should drop it, bashing should drop it, along with nearly everything else... say for example doing Crow quests. It really would have to be severly restricted, else it'd just be abused endlessly.
It'd also encourage massive teaming on one Primebonded person, a la multiple people coming and icewalling exits and dropping monoliths, to wait for the primebond to go down, etc.
Another Edit: Regular influencing is fine, except perhaps seduction type influence, since seduction ignores PK STATUS as it is and needs to be fixed. The bigger concern is village influencing, I mean they already have Sanctuary afterall.
Edit: If it were implemented, It'd have to take a minute or longer to activate, and it must require that you be at your nexus to activate it. Also, I'd say it'd be a no go if you are suspected to anyone at all, or have a timer so that if you attacked someone in the past 5 days, you cannot activate it, or something. Also, a power cost of 10 sounds much more reasonable. Influencing should drop it, bashing should drop it, along with nearly everything else... say for example doing Crow quests. It really would have to be severly restricted, else it'd just be abused endlessly.
It'd also encourage massive teaming on one Primebonded person, a la multiple people coming and icewalling exits and dropping monoliths, to wait for the primebond to go down, etc.
Another Edit: Regular influencing is fine, except perhaps seduction type influence, since seduction ignores PK STATUS as it is and needs to be fixed. The bigger concern is village influencing, I mean they already have Sanctuary afterall.
The Specific Idea was probably this one -
QUOTE
Edit: If it were implemented, It'd have to take a minute or longer to activate, and it must require that you be at your nexus to activate it. Also, I'd say it'd be a no go if you are suspected to anyone at all, or have a timer so that if you attacked someone in the past 5 days, you cannot activate it, or something. Also, a power cost of 10 sounds much more reasonable. Influencing should drop it, bashing should drop it, along with nearly everything else... say for example doing Crow quests. It really would have to be severly restricted, else it'd just be abused endlessly.
Erion2005-02-02 03:04:53
QUOTE(Anonymous @ Feb 1 2005, 09:30 PM)
To abuseable, to restrictive, and to illogical. I know it has been stated that PK is meant to happen off prime, on the other planes, but there is little reason for it to ever happen on those planes. All the villages exist on prime, all of the cities exist on prime, not everyone can travel to planes at will, and almost all the "harmful" quests exist on prime. Planes are fine if you randomly want to kill people, but who wants to randomly kill people? Generally there is a specific person you are after, and the only place they will be accessible is prime. Give us a reason to be there, other then to bash, many consider it distasteful to attack others who are hunting.
Edit: If it were implemented, It'd have to take a minute or longer to activate, and it must require that you be at your nexus to activate it. Also, I'd say it'd be a no go if you are suspected to anyone at all, or have a timer so that if you attacked someone in the past 5 days, you cannot activate it, or something. Also, a power cost of 10 sounds much more reasonable. Influencing should drop it, bashing should drop it, along with nearly everything else... say for example doing Crow quests. It really would have to be severly restricted, else it'd just be abused endlessly.
It'd also encourage massive teaming on one Primebonded person, a la multiple people coming and icewalling exits and dropping monoliths, to wait for the primebond to go down, etc.
Another Edit: Regular influencing is fine, except perhaps seduction type influence, since seduction ignores PK STATUS as it is and needs to be fixed. The bigger concern is village influencing, I mean they already have Sanctuary afterall.
Edit: If it were implemented, It'd have to take a minute or longer to activate, and it must require that you be at your nexus to activate it. Also, I'd say it'd be a no go if you are suspected to anyone at all, or have a timer so that if you attacked someone in the past 5 days, you cannot activate it, or something. Also, a power cost of 10 sounds much more reasonable. Influencing should drop it, bashing should drop it, along with nearly everything else... say for example doing Crow quests. It really would have to be severly restricted, else it'd just be abused endlessly.
It'd also encourage massive teaming on one Primebonded person, a la multiple people coming and icewalling exits and dropping monoliths, to wait for the primebond to go down, etc.
Another Edit: Regular influencing is fine, except perhaps seduction type influence, since seduction ignores PK STATUS as it is and needs to be fixed. The bigger concern is village influencing, I mean they already have Sanctuary afterall.
40459
I believe this is the one. The edit, mainly.
Unknown2005-02-02 03:17:35
I like many of the ideas, and the one's I especially like:
Full health, mana, ego.
Takes one-two minutes of no other commands to activate.
Can't enter enemy territory or attack loyal entities at all. (is loyal to:)
Not sure how to get by doing anti-quests, but that should be fixed also.
No shouts, yells. Only say, tell, ct, gt, gnt, gts, clt. (tells can be snubbed if they're being insulting).
Only the player can release the shield, takes three minutes minimum of no commands to release.
Full health, mana, ego.
Takes one-two minutes of no other commands to activate.
Can't enter enemy territory or attack loyal entities at all. (is loyal to:)
Not sure how to get by doing anti-quests, but that should be fixed also.
No shouts, yells. Only say, tell, ct, gt, gnt, gts, clt. (tells can be snubbed if they're being insulting).
Only the player can release the shield, takes three minutes minimum of no commands to release.
Kaileigh2005-02-02 03:22:09
Jeez I'm sorry I'm being recognized for an Idea and not Him. If it's so important I'll edit my post
Anyway.
Contrary to popular belief not all people like to kill things or pk. As I recall there was someone on Achaea that had never rejected grace before they made it so it automatically removed.
And I know of several people that tried to play the role of a pacifist. But even joining a city in Lusternia brands you an enemy to something.
Anyway.
Contrary to popular belief not all people like to kill things or pk. As I recall there was someone on Achaea that had never rejected grace before they made it so it automatically removed.
And I know of several people that tried to play the role of a pacifist. But even joining a city in Lusternia brands you an enemy to something.
Erion2005-02-02 03:29:43
I was teasin' him, dear. More or less Tuek, as well. Copernicus is credited for discovering the earth revolves around the Sun. However, for centuries Chinese, Incans, and for a good decade or so before him so did a couple of Muslims.
EDIT: See you edited your post. Ghandi played a pacifist. I did not see any divine intervention stopping that bullet. Point is, pacifists bleed like anyone else. That's no reason to let them do furrkin/acknor quests and grab items for honors quests that pop once every 3 hours and the glom quest and the centaur spear quest and not be able to be cut down.
EDIT: See you edited your post. Ghandi played a pacifist. I did not see any divine intervention stopping that bullet. Point is, pacifists bleed like anyone else. That's no reason to let them do furrkin/acknor quests and grab items for honors quests that pop once every 3 hours and the glom quest and the centaur spear quest and not be able to be cut down.
Kaileigh2005-02-02 03:37:45
Don't call me dear.. I've had enough of Annabelle doing it and you don't want to be her do you?
My point is, If they want to be no pk why should pk whores ruin it for them? This is a game for fun and dying when you're pondering a rock or whatever isn't fun.
Things can and always will be abused. Thats why grace was shortened on Achaea. That's why some people whore certain skills that they know are bugged.
My point is, If they want to be no pk why should pk whores ruin it for them? This is a game for fun and dying when you're pondering a rock or whatever isn't fun.
Things can and always will be abused. Thats why grace was shortened on Achaea. That's why some people whore certain skills that they know are bugged.
Erion2005-02-02 03:40:56
Because I'd quit before having to deal with someone able to run around being a total moron and able to do anti-Acknor or anti-estelbar or anti-stewart or anti-glom or anti-seren or anti-anti quests, and me not be able to kill them. It makes NO sense. Just none at all.
EDIT: And Lusternia is DESIGNED for PK. The entire basis of any IRE game is just that. Off-plane, on-plane, in-plane out-plane here there anywhere damnit, green eggs and ham. Everything about any guild/class skillset just SCREAMS PK! While I love RP, and if you want to RP a pacifist, fine. Thousands of pacifists have died throughout history. You want to not-die? Do what Annabelle does, and never leave New Celest. Or go play a MUSH.
EDIT: And Lusternia is DESIGNED for PK. The entire basis of any IRE game is just that. Off-plane, on-plane, in-plane out-plane here there anywhere damnit, green eggs and ham. Everything about any guild/class skillset just SCREAMS PK! While I love RP, and if you want to RP a pacifist, fine. Thousands of pacifists have died throughout history. You want to not-die? Do what Annabelle does, and never leave New Celest. Or go play a MUSH.
Daganev2005-02-02 03:48:46
I'm curious why the concept of incentives is not look at more, and instead the code tries to compensate for a black and white situation where lots of gray exists?
Demenses also seem to cause bugs with Avenger.
Demenses also seem to cause bugs with Avenger.
Unknown2005-02-02 03:49:29
Only problem with that is this...
Say you read a book, say, a Drizzt book. Yes, you want action. But no, you don't want 400 pages of action. Action, fast-paced, sequel scene, calming down period, action, fast-paced, calm down, action, calm down.
Pure PK is 400 pages of battle. Snore.
MUSH is 400 pages of calming down. Snore.
Good MUD is a good mix.
Say you read a book, say, a Drizzt book. Yes, you want action. But no, you don't want 400 pages of action. Action, fast-paced, sequel scene, calming down period, action, fast-paced, calm down, action, calm down.
Pure PK is 400 pages of battle. Snore.
MUSH is 400 pages of calming down. Snore.
Good MUD is a good mix.
Ixion2005-02-02 03:53:59
QUOTE(SirVLCIV @ Feb 1 2005, 10:17 PM)
I like many of the ideas, and the one's I especially like:
Full health, mana, ego.
Takes one-two minutes of no other commands to activate.
Can't enter enemy territory or attack loyal entities at all. (is loyal to:)
Not sure how to get by doing anti-quests, but that should be fixed also.
No shouts, yells. Only say, tell, ct, gt, gnt, gts, clt. (tells can be snubbed if they're being insulting).
Only the player can release the shield, takes three minutes minimum of no commands to release.
Full health, mana, ego.
Takes one-two minutes of no other commands to activate.
Can't enter enemy territory or attack loyal entities at all. (is loyal to:)
Not sure how to get by doing anti-quests, but that should be fixed also.
No shouts, yells. Only say, tell, ct, gt, gnt, gts, clt. (tells can be snubbed if they're being insulting).
Only the player can release the shield, takes three minutes minimum of no commands to release.
40520
That's a good start to the requirements and stipulations that Primebond needs so that RP, influencing, and other facets of Lusternian life are not adversely affected. Primebond is a good idea, but it would start out being abused until it could be tweaked and improved over time.
In the same vein, I think the following is a great idea:
--AstralBond--
ASTRALBOND ON
ASTRALBOND OFF
Power: 10 (any)
By congealing with astral currents, all attacks to and from other players will be rendered impossible. etc. etc. etc.
The idea is that serious hunters would be able to hunt in peace without having to constantly look at WHO (or use a sensing skill) to see who is coming to kill them. With a few stipulations, it could be prevented from being abused and not interfere with RP or otherwise detract from gameplay.
-Can be toggled ON and OFF a maximum of TWICE per RL day.
-Attacking others turns OFF AstralBond immediately for an ENTIRE RL day, nor can it be put up again for a RL day.
-Takes two full minutes of balance to turn on or off.
Estarra, please incorporate something like this so that serious hunters can hunt in relative peace.
Unknown2005-02-02 03:55:55
Oooh, new idea changed with that in mind... when you Primebond on OR off... it takes away your balance and equilibrium for 2 minutes.
Daganev2005-02-02 03:58:27
Heh, I can just see a bond for every plane.
One of the reasons I like communication limitations on Primebond, is that it gives further incentive for a person to not use primebond unless they really feel the need to be protected, and gives less reason for abuse.
An example of how to reward somone for not PKing, is lets say, every Logged in hour of gameplay, gave you some mild form of exp bonus. Or similiar to what WoW does. For every person on your suspect list, or every aggressive act you do towards another person, would reduce the amount of exp , or exp bonus you gain during that time.
so for every momment you arn't hurting a nother player your getting some benefit.
I think that idea is not so good, but it has its merits so I'm attempting to explain it while hungry and sick.
One of the reasons I like communication limitations on Primebond, is that it gives further incentive for a person to not use primebond unless they really feel the need to be protected, and gives less reason for abuse.
An example of how to reward somone for not PKing, is lets say, every Logged in hour of gameplay, gave you some mild form of exp bonus. Or similiar to what WoW does. For every person on your suspect list, or every aggressive act you do towards another person, would reduce the amount of exp , or exp bonus you gain during that time.
so for every momment you arn't hurting a nother player your getting some benefit.
I think that idea is not so good, but it has its merits so I'm attempting to explain it while hungry and sick.
Faethan2005-02-02 04:01:29
I don't like the idea of the Astral safety. Other planes are avenger free for a reason. They are supposed to have the risk of getting killed.
Unknown2005-02-02 04:02:31
I would be dissapointed if this skill went in. An IC justification for the avenger system works, but adding an IC version of pk flags as well might start to take the whole thing a little far.
I don't like the idea that people can be rude and, while being only a little careful, never be in any danger pk wise about it.
Some skills *cough hexes cough* require the element of surprise to be of any use. This skill would further downgrade the viability of what is already perhaps the worst skill choice in the game.
Overall, I seriously think such a skill would ruin Lusternia in more ways than one and I'm hoping it won't be put in.
I don't like the idea that people can be rude and, while being only a little careful, never be in any danger pk wise about it.
Some skills *cough hexes cough* require the element of surprise to be of any use. This skill would further downgrade the viability of what is already perhaps the worst skill choice in the game.
Overall, I seriously think such a skill would ruin Lusternia in more ways than one and I'm hoping it won't be put in.
Kaileigh2005-02-02 04:09:10
QUOTE(Erion @ Feb 1 2005, 09:40 PM)
You want to not-die? Do what Annabelle does, and never leave New Celest.Â
40533
I'm tired of that. I'm NOT Annabelle. And I 'm tired of leaving my city and being killed for no reason other than they can without any consequences. It's PK oriented because there are no consequences. Avenger is easily bypassed.
I'm tired of novices being killed because of what city they joined. It's not fun dying to everyone that is on the opposite side.
I've tried other games but I always come back to IRE because, while they have their faults and total jerks, their games are the most detailed.
Honestly I would enjoy a system that made dying a cenrtain number of times permanent. But guess what? People would abuse that trying to kill people as much as possible.
Elryn2005-02-02 04:13:03
QUOTE(daganev @ Feb 2 2005, 01:58 PM)
An example of how to reward somone for not PKing, is lets say, every Logged in hour of gameplay, gave you some mild form of exp bonus. Or similiar to what WoW does. For every person on your suspect list, or every aggressive act you do towards another person, would reduce the amount of exp , or exp bonus you gain during that time.
so for every momment you arn't hurting a nother player your getting some benefit.
I think that idea is not so good, but it has its merits so I'm attempting to explain it while hungry and sick.
so for every momment you arn't hurting a nother player your getting some benefit.
I think that idea is not so good, but it has its merits so I'm attempting to explain it while hungry and sick.
40545
I like the concept behind something like this, but not the specifics. I've always been against passive experience gain in these sort of games, because it encourages people to sit logged in doing nothing in order to gain all the levels they need. The only way this could reasonably be implemented is if the experience gain was incredibly small, but therefore at the higher levels the disadvantage of pk-ing would be insignificant, and not much of a discouraging device.
Ixion2005-02-02 04:14:39
QUOTE(Faethan @ Feb 1 2005, 11:01 PM)
I don't like the idea of the Astral safety. Other planes are avenger free for a reason. They are supposed to have the risk of getting killed.
40549
A few notes. Obviously you aren't a serious hunter to appreciate how this could only help those who wish to remain peaceful. Astral is FAR from safe.
Any attacks on other players on ANY plane as well as ANY attacks on denizens on all planes except astral removes the AstralBond for an ENTIRE RL day. Therefore, anyone trying to kill you on astral when AstralBonded lacks valid RP reasons for PK and as such is not possible. No other planes need such a bond.
Edit: Have only one ON/OFF toggle per RL day instead of the previous two I stated earlier
