Erion2005-02-02 04:30:11
Off-plane is made for combat. The entire point of prime-bond would be to try and keep it off-plane. "astral-bond" would simply do the opposite.
Ixion2005-02-02 04:33:46
QUOTE(Erion @ Feb 1 2005, 11:30 PM)
Off-plane is made for combat. The entire point of prime-bond would be to try and keep it off-plane. "astral-bond" would simply do the opposite.
40558
Re-read the stipulations, it would not do the opposite. The only thing it would do is prevent those without any RP reason to randomly kill people hunting on astral.
Erion2005-02-02 04:34:47
Wouldn't be random. They're stealing my power. =\\
Ixion2005-02-02 04:41:04
Well first off, there's a ridiculous amount of power on astral, and when many people are on the same sphere there's no increased drain for -all- of them to bash at the same time. Second, you have to possess something before someone can steal it. Third, do you even hunt on astral? I sure haven't ever seen you hunt there.
Erion2005-02-02 04:44:59
I hunt there every now and then, more or less waiting for putre. Really, my point is, I don't care what sort of logistics you throw into it. I have extreme doubts the Divine would impliment it, because, by your reckoning, it's entirely useless anyway. You can't bash grubs then go to astral and through up for "astral-bond". It just is seriously pointless. And it goes against the nature of off-plane fighting. And it only condones non-RP.
EDIT: And the power-remark was more just me being a smart *ss.
EDIT: And the power-remark was more just me being a smart *ss.
Narsrim2005-02-02 05:11:33
If prime-bond were to go into Lusternia in any form, I think the #1 prerequisite for being able to use prime-bond is that you have no suspects. I think it would -extremely- unfair otherwise. Imagine if you will, Narsrim jumps you while you are questing or doing something against him. He kills you. You die and lose experience... and you going to kick his face inside out the next time you see him! Oh wait, he has prime-bond now so he's completely unkillable. How fair would that be?
More or less, this is one of those idea that if executed perfectly with 10,000 tweaks, might be worth having; however, this looks like something that is going to take years to get straight. The Avenger system still needs some tweaks... for example, the Avenger does not handle group combat at all. I can get beaten down by a group of 10 and only get suspect on the person who landed the killing blow, turn around and attack with my own group and several of us get suspect...
More or less, this is one of those idea that if executed perfectly with 10,000 tweaks, might be worth having; however, this looks like something that is going to take years to get straight. The Avenger system still needs some tweaks... for example, the Avenger does not handle group combat at all. I can get beaten down by a group of 10 and only get suspect on the person who landed the killing blow, turn around and attack with my own group and several of us get suspect...
Dumihru2005-02-02 05:19:48
It seems like the problem is not the amount of PK, so much as the amount of idiotic PK.
Example of idiot PK - Killing random people simply because they are from city X, or of race X (or they show up on HELP GUILD-X). This can be justified only on the most shallow of levels, especially in a world where there is no permanent death (and everybody knows that).
This is where Imperian's straight-out "Don't PK unless you have an RP reason" rule seems to make sense, at least in theory.
An alternative might be to introduce a non-automated, in-role punishment for excessive PK. For example, state that a mysterious, shrouded knight has taken to wandering the Basin and meting out "justice" to those whom he sees as causing too much bloodshed, and that each murder increases the slayer's chance of being paid a visit.
A visit by the knight might result in anything from 2000-max health damage, 2000-max mana damage, 5 random afflictions, random teleport to Astral, etc.
In practice, he might be used like this -
1) happens to notice a person killing with high frequency (especially killing those just out of novicehood) .
2) sends the knight after the killer. might switch to the knight and go talk to the killer. If the killer does not provide adequate reason for his slayings, then the beating commences.
If the victim sees the punishment as unjust, well too bad. The knight has no compassion. And even if his sense of justice is not completely understood, everyone knows the basic actions that will cause him to visit.
This might require more work initially from divines (because it isn't automated). However, once it has happened a few times, people will most likely be cautious about how often they kill on the Prime plane.
The knight would ignore enemy territory and uninfluenced villages (and possibly disputed territories such as Ladantine's cave or Brennan's location).
For the most part, he would work as a non-automated supplement to the Avenger. The existence of a basic premise for the knight's visits, without exact "rules" would make it difficult to meta-game around him.
Example of idiot PK - Killing random people simply because they are from city X, or of race X (or they show up on HELP GUILD-X). This can be justified only on the most shallow of levels, especially in a world where there is no permanent death (and everybody knows that).
This is where Imperian's straight-out "Don't PK unless you have an RP reason" rule seems to make sense, at least in theory.
An alternative might be to introduce a non-automated, in-role punishment for excessive PK. For example, state that a mysterious, shrouded knight has taken to wandering the Basin and meting out "justice" to those whom he sees as causing too much bloodshed, and that each murder increases the slayer's chance of being paid a visit.
A visit by the knight might result in anything from 2000-max health damage, 2000-max mana damage, 5 random afflictions, random teleport to Astral, etc.
In practice, he might be used like this -
1)
2)
If the victim sees the punishment as unjust, well too bad. The knight has no compassion. And even if his sense of justice is not completely understood, everyone knows the basic actions that will cause him to visit.
This might require more work initially from divines (because it isn't automated). However, once it has happened a few times, people will most likely be cautious about how often they kill on the Prime plane.
The knight would ignore enemy territory and uninfluenced villages (and possibly disputed territories such as Ladantine's cave or Brennan's location).
For the most part, he would work as a non-automated supplement to the Avenger. The existence of a basic premise for the knight's visits, without exact "rules" would make it difficult to meta-game around him.
Drago2005-02-02 05:20:01
I think the bugs in group combat -might- come from people being grouped in groups..
Say: Person a follows person b, who then follows person c.
Say: Person a follows person b, who then follows person c.
Narsrim2005-02-02 05:21:59
QUOTE(Dumihru @ Feb 2 2005, 01:19 AM)
It seems like the problem is not the amount of PK, so much as the amount of idiotic PK.
Example of idiot PK - Killing random people simply because they are from city X, or of race X (or they show up on HELP GUILD-X). This can be justified only on the most shallow of levels, especially in a world where there is no permanent death (and everybody knows that).
This is where Imperian's straight-out "Don't PK unless you have an RP reason" rule seems to make sense, at least in theory.
An alternative might be to introduce a non-automated, in-role punishment for excessive PK. For example, state that a mysterious, shrouded knight has taken to wandering the Basin and meting out "justice" to those whom he sees as causing too much bloodshed, and that each murder increases the slayer's chance of being paid a visit.
A visit by the knight might result in anything from 2000-max health damage, 2000-max mana damage, 5 random afflictions, random teleport to Astral, etc.
In practice, he might be used like this -
1) happens to notice a person killing with high frequency (especially killing those just out of novicehood) .
2) sends the knight after the person.  might switch to the knight and go talk to the killer. If the killer does not provide adequate reason for his slayings, then the beating commences.
If the victim punishment sees the punishment as unjust, well too bad. The knight has no compassion. And even if his sense of justice is not completely understood, everyone knows the basic actions that will cause him to visit.
This might require more work initially from divines (because it isn't automated). However, once it has happened a few times, people will most likely be cautious about how often they kill on the Prime plane.
The knight would ignore enemy territory and uninfluenced villages (and possibly disputed territories such as Ladantine's cave or Brennan's location).
For the most part, he would work as a non-automated supplement to the Avenger. The existence of a basic premise for the knight's visits, without exact "rules" would make it difficult to meta-game around him.
Example of idiot PK - Killing random people simply because they are from city X, or of race X (or they show up on HELP GUILD-X). This can be justified only on the most shallow of levels, especially in a world where there is no permanent death (and everybody knows that).
This is where Imperian's straight-out "Don't PK unless you have an RP reason" rule seems to make sense, at least in theory.
An alternative might be to introduce a non-automated, in-role punishment for excessive PK. For example, state that a mysterious, shrouded knight has taken to wandering the Basin and meting out "justice" to those whom he sees as causing too much bloodshed, and that each murder increases the slayer's chance of being paid a visit.
A visit by the knight might result in anything from 2000-max health damage, 2000-max mana damage, 5 random afflictions, random teleport to Astral, etc.
In practice, he might be used like this -
1)
2)
If the victim punishment sees the punishment as unjust, well too bad. The knight has no compassion. And even if his sense of justice is not completely understood, everyone knows the basic actions that will cause him to visit.
This might require more work initially from divines (because it isn't automated). However, once it has happened a few times, people will most likely be cautious about how often they kill on the Prime plane.
The knight would ignore enemy territory and uninfluenced villages (and possibly disputed territories such as Ladantine's cave or Brennan's location).
For the most part, he would work as a non-automated supplement to the Avenger. The existence of a basic premise for the knight's visits, without exact "rules" would make it difficult to meta-game around him.
40575
I like this.
Unknown2005-02-02 05:22:06
Astral is much safer than prime as far as PvP goes. I've never once been able to walk all the way to a target I have there, and even if the right paths were all open at the time you don't know just which path it is to reach them, which gives them plenty of time to see you coming.
Narsrim2005-02-02 05:23:24
QUOTE(Jello @ Feb 2 2005, 01:22 AM)
Astral is much safer than prime as far as PvP goes. I've never once been able to walk all the way to a target I have there, and even if the right paths were all open at the time you don't know just which path it is to reach them, which gives them plenty of time to see you coming.
40578
It can be, yes; however, someone -could- kill someone else easily on Astral. I've done it many times. However, I'm never going to magically kill someone at the Megalith, etc.
Unknown2005-02-02 05:28:28
Admin deciding who is and isn't out of line when it comes to PK, with no set rules? Welcome to Aetolia and Imperian. Goodbye to the biggest difference between the games. Hello to an entire classification of potential corruption and unfairness.
I think the real problem here is worldwide summon. It's the people who sit there trying to summon people all day that cause problems, actually having to walk to your target changes a lot. Summon just shouldn't work if you aren't mutual allies with someone.
I think the real problem here is worldwide summon. It's the people who sit there trying to summon people all day that cause problems, actually having to walk to your target changes a lot. Summon just shouldn't work if you aren't mutual allies with someone.
Drago2005-02-02 05:33:22
Or in the same area, and not on highways if you aren't allied.
That should cut down "Dude, I just got summoned from outside the Glomdoring to Serenwilde
"
That should cut down "Dude, I just got summoned from outside the Glomdoring to Serenwilde
"Unknown2005-02-02 05:35:12
Don't forget the "hey, let's make a statue and summon everyone from that's online, because we're guaranteed to kill someone that way and don't have to actually think either."
Estarra2005-02-02 05:51:44
QUOTE(Jello @ Feb 1 2005, 10:28 PM)
I think the real problem here is worldwide summon. It's the people who sit there trying to summon people all day that cause problems, actually having to walk to your target changes a lot. Summon just shouldn't work if you aren't mutual allies with someone.
40581
Hmm, you know, Jello, you may have a point. I'll think on this.
Olan2005-02-02 06:00:26
This suggestion was made in the early days of the realm, when Visaeris popularized summoning tactics. I don't see any need for every single person to have a worldwide summoning spell usable on enemies. Make it usable only if the summonee has the summoner on their ally list, or make it mutual...but this suggestion has been made, and few people, if any, had any reason why it shouldn't be changed.Elryn2005-02-02 06:06:47
I don't suppose that could apply to any kind of summon that works outside the local area?
Drago2005-02-02 06:08:35
The only two that don't are lust and demsne summon.
Demesne summon means you need to be in the demesne, Lust puts them on your ally list anyway.
Demesne summon means you need to be in the demesne, Lust puts them on your ally list anyway.
Unknown2005-02-02 06:08:35
Well, the only other long range summon I can think of is lust, which would be somewhat worthless if it was local area considering how much work it takes.
Elryn2005-02-02 06:10:16
I mean demesne summon.
