I proved your point POSTS ago, but that's not what she had in mind.

Estarra, a Serenguard who goes Hartstone loses 62.5% of his or her lessons in Blademaster. A 62.5% loss of his or her lessons in Athletics. Stag you wouldn't lose, but Stag isn't as important as say.. Druidry or Wicca.

If everyone thinks that's fine from a monetary point of view that 2/3rds of the Archetypes only lose 25% while another loses 62.5% from each of their Melee Pool skills then I'll stop posting on this topic.

And just to add...



Rituals (Leads to Necromancy and Sacraments), Totems (Leads to Moon and Stag), and Illusions (For all of you Mages) are in the same pool. The loss wouldn't be as great, but if I understand correctly only the Mage would lose more than 25% in this case, since you lose another 25% for switching between sister pools.

The above refers to a Serenguard becoming an Ur'guard or Paladin, or well.. whatever else you want to compare it to.

Well the novice freshmen thing I see in inherrent problem in... You don't get a feel for the guild really (skill wise) until you specialize...

Perhaps make the freshmen period die away after 48 hours in one guild, that way they get off novicehood, and get a chance to decide if they actually like the skills to?

As I've been saying all along, I see valid points from those who disagree with my point of view, and this isn't a total killer for the game. (as much as Pk might be) I kinda liked the idea someone had about changing guilds...the first time you lose 25% and it goes up substantially from there on out. It would be like a free reincanation type deal, and after that you have to pay the reaper to change to a different guild again.

I'm like KidHendrix when I look at it from a monetary point of view, as well as trying to envision it from an RP point of view. I stand by the fact that all three classes are extremely different and should be the same to move across the board. If I am a chef, I can't jump from being a Thai chef to being a French Chef and expect to do well. It's still food, but totally different types with different things entailing each. The other two archetypes may be magick in base, but that magick is so completely different.

I really don't want to see people give up on good characters and making alts, all due to not wanting to get killed on transferring. For my own experience, I was arrived the day the game officially opened (the still beta but not quite beta period) and was promoted out of novicehood WAY before 24 hours. Along with Alyssandra and such, I was one of the first secretaries for the Serenguard and really didn't have a chance to step back and look at the class in general. I know a few other folks who are in this boat. This game is a business, and I totally realize that...so want to clarify again...don't remove the whole penalty but enough to keep people interested in their characters.

The concept of making an alt, which you will then buy credits on, so you don't lose alot of lessons in switching just confuses me.

You will still have FAR more lessons if you switch guilds, then a newbie would. Which means less credits you have to buy to retrans....

Actually, with the newbie bonus, that's very often not the case, depending on how many credits you buy in one go.

What I particularly dislike about the current system is that it encourages changing city/commune entirely, rather than staying in the service of one. If I were to decide that pointing my staff at things was not for me, and that I wanted to hit things with swords instead, my loss for going Ur'guard would be no greater than becoming a Paladin.

Yeah, you can grab the newbie bonus and power up your new alt rather quickly if you purchase credits. But, you give up all you worked for on your previous character and the attributes they have. And its the fact that if I make an alt, I don't toss money out the window...if I switch, I have to buy credits to just to make up for the OBSCENE amount I just lost leaving warrior. Obviously though this isn't something that is gonna be easily tweaked, and this thread is just running in a circle. The poor dead horse has been kicked many times...

from a RP perspective, I'd much rather have people killing off one charachter and making an new one, rather than suddenly having a completely different role in life.

This is assuming the reason for the change is a Mechanical dislike of your skills, and has nothing to do with a guild's leadership or members.

They get to keep one skill... out of three... in optimal conditions... and still suffer huge penalties? Do away with the intermediate drop, either have it drop straight down to the base, and cost 50% total, for everyone when forgetting lessons, or only drop to the original skillpool, with an original lesson loss of 25%, maybe 10% more to move between pools.

Three times, I have been removed from a city or commune for roleplay based reasons, forcing me to join another, and despite it all I am still trying my damnedest to stay true to my RP. When city leaders have more power over you than your guild, and are not the least bit hesitant to outcit you whenever their fingers get itchy over you acting out a bit of interesting RP, this level of lesson loss is awful. I wouldnt be able to afford another guild change if Gregori gets itchy fingers. And hes already got some sort of grudge against me. I would most likely wind up leaving Lusternia all together, at least until I got a new job to supplement my funds from article sales. Its not cool when OOC limitations, and other characters have that much power over how you play.

I would agree with you, thats why I put that little disclaimer at the end.

They need to reduce the ability to outcitizen people, heavily. I was outcitizened by Brona the first time because I told him what he said didnt add up. (He claimed someone was spying on an iron council meeting as a reason for enemying, when they were with tenqual on the earth plane).

Nikua outcommuned me for working on raising Gaudiguch. However about 20 other serenwilders were also working on it. None of them were outcommuned. (however two chose to leave)

Bricriu outcitted me when I got kicked out of Mag the second time because she didnt like me, and Daevos decided to back her up.

Honestly, people should not have the ability to outcit and outcommune except in the case of high treason, or insanity (refusal to roleplay : stuff like munsia pulls, or annabelle, on a consistant basis, even when asked to cease and desist.). High treason as defined by direct attempt at theft or physical attack against the city or another citizen.

A ) Too subjective to judge.
B ) They just did reduce the ability to outcitizen.
C ) They're the leaders of the damn organisation, of course they have power there, including the power to outcitizen/ostracise.
D ) I don't know about Magnagora, but you were ostracised by Nikua for a very good reason. For one thing, you were leading the movement to raise a city, after specifically being told not to multiple times, etc....

Akraasiel, how does it feel to be owned by the Badger?

Hah, even Silvanus knows what it is!

Its a whale, I'm just calling you a badger because you swear its a badger. So, in reality, I'm not calling your avatar the badger, I'm calling you a damned badger.

Okay, works for me.

Ok, by my Druidic decry, and my Holy Christian Decry, and by court order of the Riverside Branch of the Supieror Court of California, I declare that Shiri's avatar shall henceforth by known as 'Whadger'

Nementh Sunfire Ralt- Druid
Nathaniel P. Lussier- App. Pastor
Nathaniel P. Lussier- Deputy

*seal of California Superior Courts*

When you sit down and do the Math, there are more choices that wind up with a greater amount of lesson retention than other IRE games, and those choices which do not result in said great retention are more extreme ones. The only really huge losses are City Warriors changing to City Mages (Or Serenguard with Moon going to Hartstone, etc).

Considering in the close on 3 or 4 years I've played in IRE now, I've only had to change guilds once, I'm perhaps not the BEST person to comment on the changing guilds, the one change I did have was a HUGE deal and marked a major roleplay point. Although, I have spent alot of time as a rogue, which is more discouraged here. And now I'm rambling.

My point, at any rate, is that statistically speaking, Lusternia is far better for lesson loss. Perhaps a high lesson loss will encourage people to stick with their class and try to improve it, rather than whinging and quitting (These same people are likely to have the same, or similar bad opinions of their new class, and just begin the whinging once more).

I must admit though, when I originally read the help file on lesson loss, I thought it meant you lost 25% initially, then UP TO the 50% of original lessons. But I don't think I'll end up changing Gwynn to another archetype at any rate, so I do not have a strong opinion either way.

It's a little surprising there hasn't been a proper rebuttal on this thread, stating both the IC and OOC biases that cling to the Warrior archetype to Mage/Guardian change and between the Mage to Guardian change (Or vice versa).

The topic has died since all points have been thrown across, but I'll present a few quotes from those supporting a change (Some have been trimmed down).





Now for the in-depth focus:



And I'll finish with a final quote.



I had a lot more quotes in mind, but I didn't want to spam the topic. This isn't all about whining. It's about balance, equality, and frankly not losing 62.5% of your lessons and money in comparison to two-thirds of the rest of the game population. Important topics like this shouldn't die unless properly refuted.

So is there anyone else?

Hmm, very interesting. As I recall, at least 3 of the people now with the positions of ministers in the Serenwilde were also there assisting me... I see something very strange. Also seen strange is the fact that for many IC years, Serenwilde has been helping an already existing city stay above water (mild pun), and said official defected for the most city-like of cities... I really have issues putting this into perspective.