I said Catacombs, not Hermit, as in you had the map open and ready, like Silvanus was intelligent enough to do. It doesn't seem like many Nihilists use their skills right.

And conversely, the spore user would also die in above scenario.

Remind me again, what restriction if any exists for the use of spores?

The list of restrictions for Tarot or Necromancy skills is fairly large, not to mention the cost of actual usage.

Is there any situation in which you would -not- use a spore? (winning and killing your oppenant does not count)

Everything that I've tested for sure that stops spores:

Single broken arm.
Severed nerves (The right and left side paralysis thing).
Paralysis.
Entanglement.
Webbing.
Crucified.
Pretty much anything requiring you to writhe (Pinleg and Impale as well).
Balance and equilibrium are necessary.
Stunned.

Probably a few others I'm missing. If you name them, I'll test them.

Well, last time I checked, I found this list that stops snorting spores:

-two broken legs
-one broken/shriveled arm
-one pierced arm
-hemiplegy/severnerve
-roped
-impaled
-crucified
-pinlegged
-webbed

Is it just me, or does none of that prevent the Vitae/spore strategy? That you yourself used while in enemy territory in Magnagora, Tuek? You reflex dying to spore, and you have an absolutely failsafe escape at no cost to you whatsoever (except the minor loss from vitae pk death). If I die in the middle of enemy territory, I have to hope I can get away as a spirit (so no eye sigils) to a place where I can safely reform, recover balance AND power, then ghost out, and get home. I am vulnerable and off balance during a lot of that time, and you have ways to harm ghosts too.

We can't vitae/ghost or lich/ghost for power reasons. I think spores should cost power to USE, so that they can't be reflexed to snort on death.

I have no idea how you can defend spores with any degree of objectivity. Especially when your arguments speak of 'magnagorans' having so many avenues of escape when really you're talking about Nihilists. I don't get hermit or catacombs, and as a low int race (most of the good warrior races are) I can't even ghost for very long.

Tell you what, I'll trade you spores, for any grouping of TWO, of Lichdom/Ghost/Catacombs/Hermit. You'll get spores, and lose all four of those, and I'll just gain two. Sound fair? Even ghost was more overall useful then spores, now with violet working, it is about the same. Spores isn't particularily powerful. What stops Vitae/Burrow by the way?

Just felt like saying:

OMGZ Magnagorans r so ovrpowerd!!!! They can have 3 people do crucify/trample/sacrfice for an instant kill!!!!!111!one

Kidding. I'm surprised I haven't seen anyone try that. I wouldn't care though.

Tell you what, I'll trade you spores, for any grouping of TWO, of Lichdom/Ghost/Catacombs/Hermit.

So your one skill is worth "TWO" skills of Mags!? I'll admit it, spores annoy the hell out of me, specially since I don't have Catacombs or Hermit!

Couldn't tell you, you know why? Because it is restricted to a class, because it is a class skill, unlike spore use (I know, you want it to be class specific). Also, and I could be wrong here, but I don't think vitae/burrow instantly transports you across the land out of enemy territory into a safe place, does it? You still have to actually LEAVE.

I'm not asking for much here, just saying at the very least spore use should cost power so that, like most everyone else, there is some restriction on it and it can't be done immediately after death to escape being totally surrounded in enemy territory. Maybe burrow should require 1 power too? I don't know. But using that as an excuse for why spores shouldn't cost power is weak.

Spores are rediculously overpowered the way they are now, because every single serenwilder has access to it, limit it to moondancers only, and it isn't too bad.

As should be obvious, everyone has 'overpowered' skills. That's how things are balanced. I haven't seen anything on this four page argument that would actually convince me that spores were causing Serenwilde to have a vast advantage over the two cities.

Thank you Auseklis. You couldn't have said it any better. Everything else is overpowered, so everyone has to deal with it.

Lesse here, any tarot methods of escaping are limited to nihilists. warriors also get necromancy, so lets say 2 out of 3 magnagorian guilds get ghost. They changed it so you can't vitae/ghost but you CAN vitae/spore. Even if spore was equal to ghost, it STILL isn't fair.

Lets factor in that anyone from Serenwilde and their allies (celest) can use spores. It hardly balances out, what about the geomancers, i dont see ANY decent forms of escape for those poor buggers.

I say spores should be limited to the use of moonies and serenguard somehow. Stop comparing spores to tarot on a city vs city basis because the majority of magnagorians dont have those tarot skills.

EDIT: change vitae so it only takes 5 power to use, that way we can vitae/ghost. I believe it was changed in the first place because daevos and valek were unkillable (via praying) with vitae ghost. If it was changed because one person was proving to be unkillable, why can't it be changed when another person can't be killable.

Really its not fair. If you say yeah a death to vitae is still a death, then why do most people not really care when they vitae, nor do I get satisfaction when I see someone vitae rather than praying. and also why do I get people trying to kill me a second time when Ive already been killed? Face it, death by vitae is not equal to death by praying. Its just not. clearly something needs to be done about the vitae/spore and vitae/ghost, either make them both be able to work or make neither of them able to work.

And only one guild can actually make spores. However, Hartstone and Serenguard both severly lack in escape abilities, so it makes sense that they can use spores. Oh, and Geomancer's can vitae/burrow. Or perhaps vitae/center? Does center take power?

I dont think center takes power, but thats providing they are in their demesne when you get them.

Also you can't burrow in a lot of places

Center takes no power

Center doesnt take power, just balance, equilibrium and the usual lack of afflictions. Burrow cant be done anywhere that isnt specifically said to be 'earthy' in the desc.

Center sounds like a good combination with Vitae then.

...ye gods. He's right. Uhm. Ah. Something wrong with that, hah. Balance is about 8 seconds, so if you've a small demesne, you be in trouble. Or was last time I checked, I never wrote down the balance times. Blar.

Just a general comment, damn I seem to be missing out on all the fun. It's always an argument about a certain Seren skill or a certain Maggie skill. Are there any Celest skills people complain about?

I should probably make alts to join in on the fun some time.