I don't PK a lot...

I'd like any system that the admins came up with, though I do really like the sound of this one. It is a little bit complicated, and I had to read the post about it twice, but now that I understand it, sounds good to me.

but the reason you don't like it appeard to be because you want changes done to other planes, not because it would not be a fair system.

I had to sit and read the suggestion three or four times before I was able to get my head around all the implications and methods in which the Karma system works.

I think its fair, and except for a few issues that will come up that have to do with the way avenger code works, I think it would be great.

As the issues come up, the avenger will be more easily tweaked.

Just an opinion - if you don't like the idea, do you disagree in the entirety, or is there merely a flaw or multiple flaws you dislike?

I think it should be -difficult- to gain karma, and take a good 25-50 of it to curse someone.

Going on what Estarra's posted, if I curse someone with... -1 eq gain for 75 karma, it will cost them 75 karma to immediately get rid of it. 70 the second IC month, 65 the third, down to 10 karma in 13 RL days. I should only be able to gain 1 karma an RL day, or maximum of 5 if I'm a super-quest-whore, so would be able to use this curse a maximum of twice every 10 RL days (100 karma-25 karma-75 karma-0 karma).

mmm... here's an idea... karma could be affected if you commit aggressive actions against players?

Here's an idea - I'm a Celestine Healer, and go around healing my allies in combat, but don't attack -anyone-. I should be gaining karma at 3-5 times a normal rate. Whereas if I run around beating people up (but not killing them), I don't gain karma as quickly... ::shrugs:: just brainstorming.

I have come from games like Ultima Online, all the IRE games, and many other more locally admistered MUDS, MMORPGs, etc... and everytime I have seen a system like this adminstired it did not work anywhere near the way it was supposed to.

Also the more complicated the PK system is, the less people are going to like this game... I think Karma and Avenger is to much.

Indivdually they are good systems, but if combined? It becomaes overkill...

The problem is that some of us (coughmecough) are a very low level. If bashing and hunting is the only way to gain karma, besides getting one pointsworth a month, bigger people could bash on the lower-level ones with little consequence.

I'm a bit confused what the overkill is.

Avenger deals with two kills in a row, Karma deals with the status before Avenger gets used...

I don't see people not attacking because of any fear of avenger.

Here is my brief suggestion. Instead of focusing on an individual carrot and stick method, shift to a City/Common wide approach. Perhaps introduce a system based upon state of relations between factions involved. Each City/Commune would have to set its relation to the others. This would run the gamut from full blown war, to neutral, to alliance, and several steps in between. Characters would incur several disadvantages or advantages when battling based upon their cities set status versus their opponents set status.

I think Cron's idea has some merit...now as to how exactly, not quite sure....I'm not really much of a PKer, and have had my share of out-of-nowhere deaths from Magnagorans because I'm a Celestian or a Merian or whatever, but I still think the Avenger is fine as it is, and like others have said, once the bugs with group combat are worked out, I think we'll be okay.

We just need to get people to start RPing a little bit better PK....killing someone you've never met/talked to/seen before because their honours says that they are from Magnagora is pretty lame, IMHO. But that's life. You don't want to die, stay in your city or face the risk.

and instead of maybe trying to place more restrictions on PK,

we can find some way to reward better RP?

I have had my share of killing "random' people. But those random people tend to be folks with big mouths that belong to the wrong city and are hanging around the megalith or our gates or something.

The Avenger alone is not enough I think, and I think Karma alone would not be enough either, as the large PKers will soon learn all the fancy quests in the game.

I have to agree with Jello, I'd pick Karma over Primebond.... but, I still don't like the idea. Furthermore, I think that if Karma was to go into play based upon the poll then it should have more than a simple majority of players who happens to use forums. If 2/3 of players feel it is acceptable, I'd be ok with dealing with it but if this comes down to a 48:52 (or something of that order) vote then I don't think it would be fair. Whereas some people are extremely pissy over PK in Lusternia, I find just as many people argue as to "why" it should stay as is. I'd hate to see those people lose their voice because they are not the ones calling foul.

The poll is only to gauge general response and comments. It will be left to the administration on whether to implement any change regardless of the poll numbers. (In any case, we are just polling people in the forums who like to respond to polls, not the general populace, many of whom aren't members of these forums.)

If you don't like the idea, what about it don't you like?

When there are things I don't like, I try to be specific about what it is I'm not liking.

Here's why I don't like the system: Let's say the system goes in, and I don't do much pk-wise, and Ive accumulated 75 Karma points. Then I get killed. I curse the person who killed me. There is now incentive for friends of that person to repeatedly kill me with immunity from this system (I probably won't be able to build up enough karma to curse all of them, and if they each kill me only once, they have nothing to fear). There is also incentive for the person who I cursed to come kill me again, because I no longer have suspect on them, and they will want revenge for being cursed.

Not sure I really understand this. If Magnagora wants war on Celest and Celest doesn't want to go to war, then make it impossible for any Magnagoran to PK a Celestian? Immediately autozap a Magnagoran who tries to attack a Celestian?

We're certainly open to ideas on how to curb excessive PK if they're thought out. I will tell you up front that we are NOT looking for ideas along the lines of "giving more reasons to attack on other planes" (we've gone over that how many times?) or "have player or god committees decide if a PK was RP worthy" (too subjective).

Yes, if you're going to curse someone, you have to be prepared for repercussions. How exactly would you want the system to work anyway?

I don't know how this system would be fixed, but it seems that if I use the curse, people now have -more- incentive to kill me than they did before I used it. Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Is the curse itself going to be a quest to create?