Aye, there is little PK here, put deathsight on. The only time there is any real PK, its when someone says EXTREMELY stupid on shouts, and then is stupid enough to leave their city, or one city pissed off the other city and the orginal city raided.

And influencing...

*shrug*

Agreed.

If people say there is hardly any random PK, how about the Celestians who jump random Magnagorans for spiking? (Bearing in mind the spectres are wailing in despair, the arguement that you're sending them to a worse place hardly seems sound?)

I don't think PK is out of hand. For the most part, and I have Deathsense on all the time, I see Annabelle die alot, and I mean.. it's Annabelle if you don't want to kill her it can only be because you have yet to meet her. Followed by mutual raiders, Magnagora raids Celest, Celest raids Magnagora, Serenwilde raids Magnagora, Magnagora raids Serenwilde. It is usually limited to the raiders as well, although sometimes you think someone was part of it because they were in the vicinity and so they get killed.

I haven't seen much in the way of random thuggery that would make PK need to be curbed, because you can always get avenger on the person if they continue.

If you are walking down the road and getting jumped. It is probably because you angered someone and deserve it. Plainly speaking if I anger an entire city/commune I know I am going to get killed at some point in time. I am probably going to get killed a few times. You don't get to jump in and PK when you feel like it then say "oh I am innocent now, so your pk'ing of me is not fair". You can be a pacifist all you want, but once you take the action of killing someone, you have put a target on your back for a very long time.

My Been Killed by (suspect I think) list permanently has:

Amaru
Thaddeus
Aris
(give or take another 2 Celestians)


My PK'd by me (bullied)list:
(empty)

As soon as the 30 days runs out on anyone in my list above, amazingly enough that day they show up and kill me again. Usually it is when I am harvesting, but in some cases it is while i was bashing. So yes, random killing exists and no there is no way for me to gain it back as they simply wait the 30 day timer than run back in and do it again. I repeat what I said in my last post, and have yet to hear a reply against. How does putting in a skill that when accounting for possible abuses, protects those who don't want to be involved in PK...how does that ruin the game? You can still PK, you just can't PK the people who have given up the right to be killed or kill themselves.

Not that I know what's going through their minds, but do you have any idea why you're targetted over other Magnagorans?

For example, the only reason I connect the name "Devris" to "enemy" or "Magnagora" is because he was involved in some sort of raiding (of SW) during the war and became one of the people to keep an eye on.

That said, 30 RL days / 1 month is a huge amount of time. Lusternia has only be open for 5 months total, and that seems like forever. If someone has only been killed 5 times (by a given person) since Lusternia opened, it really doesn't seem like an indication of excessive PK.

I've been jumped/summoned randomly as well (mostly by Silvanus+herd or Ravin/Yrael, and normally while harvesting or talking). But I just put their names on my "to kick later" list. If I feel like getting revenge later, then I will. If I don't, then it doesn't really matter. Is it really that big of a deal? Those people already know that they will never bash/harvest/link/walk in safety because they've pissed off too many people.

And that includes the herd that follows Silvanus around, by the way. If you guys are going to be doing that, then you can't expect people to be chummy with you on Astral later.

It's a deterrent here as well. The more people you have on your bully list, the tougher the punishment is if you get avengered.

Devris: So you are complaining that 2 or 3 people kill you every 30 RL days? That's an average of one PK death per 10 days. That's hardly something to cry over. Is that really dramatically more than the number of times you die due to crappy luck anyway?

Whoever was complaining about dying while spiking, liching, or whatever: Workng directly for the sworn enemy of a character is bound to piss them off. You have to face at least a wee tiny chance of consequences for your IC actions.

Could you be a little clearer?

I don't see Serenwilders getting killed for collecting pixies, nor Celestians for getting supplicants...the difference is?

The people who are against Celest/the Serenwilde are less proactive? It makes IC sense.

Honestly, there are some stupid PK (I saw Thaddeus kill Gruhk, I've never seen Gruhk ever on Prime plane, he is always on Nil/Astral, and has never done anything but bash).

Other then that, there is nowhere even close to a lot of PK.

Gruhk has attacked me while I've raided villages in the past.

Yes it is something to cry about.

I would totally understand if when raiding I got killed, or when doing something to directly affect Celest that I am hunted. By being over level 70, and not hunting on Astral (lose nearly 80 percent when I die up there), it takes a LONG time for me to make levels. As such, one death equal a loss of several hours of bashing for me. If you want to use your godlike ability to give me back a few wasted hours of my life for NO REASON AT ALL, then I will shut up and fade into the background.

As I said before, and will say 100 times more till you understand. I'm not ranting about PK in general...

I'm ranting about random killing for little to no reason at all other than to be an ahole. On that list I shared, I didn't count those people who had decent reasons to kill me. Ethelon took me back in the day, we argued, and in the end he had decent RP reasons for the people he went after. His name wasn't on my rant list. You can try and say, "oh that isn't too many PK's on you", but for me ..one stupid/random PK is over the top. It should not happen in the first place. The kill because you are from a city, you are good exp, you are evil, you attacked a friend of mine 7 years ago, or whatnot is enough to infuriate anyone. If you kill me, great..dead...don't keep it up everytime you fall off my suspect list.

Umm, I don't agree... killing because of city is fully reasonable RP reason to PK rather you want to agree with it or not.

*shrug* Oh well, this game is not ment for all, to quote President Trumen, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen."

Just like the real world, Lusternia is a world where violence is a part of it. If you really hate random PK, orginize a world wide coalition, and get all three cities agree to a set of laws that define murder, and set up some trial or tribunal method to curb it. We don't need the admins to curb killing, players need to do it.

A griefer will eventually start losing when he pisses enough people off, his 'fun' will be ruined as he is beat back to Newton and we will never hear from him again.

We don't need all these admin tools, we need players to stop thinking of their own profit.

Actually, that's not an adequate reason.

Someone being a member of a city you don't like isn't a good reason to kill them, in fact its a pretty bad reason that I can shoot holes through.

"So, why did you kill him?"
"He's from Magnagora."
"And what did he do to you, exactly?"
"He was being Magnagoran."

Great Excuse there. The one I like is Ethelon's "crimes against the Light" you know, that thing that Drago doesn't care about at all, let alone enough to attack it.

Fact is: People like Ethelon, Tuek and Narsrim will go out of their way to kill Magnagorans for whatever reason, whether they want to take part in combat or not.

Your quote from Trumen isn't a very good one, when you think about it. Lusternia, the only way to stay out of combat is to sit in your city... or be from Celest and, in my opinion, Lusternia shouldn't be like that and it appears that Estarra agrees with me.

If I want to leave my city to walk into Acknor, give some chickens to one of the orcs then walk over to Angkrag and beat up a slave without getting attacked by someone.. I should be able to.

As it is, chances are I'll get attacked half way to Angkrag.

Thats strange... as Nementh when I was Magnagoran, I walked around, bashed, traveled the planes... never got hunted... the point was pointed out earlier... what have you done to bring this PK attention on you?

I killed quite a few Serenwilders and Celestians during the war... I didn't get hunted? If they are hunting you, you did something to get them to hunt you.

And being from a city that is morally opposed to your own beleifs... some fight through words and try and convert you, others crusade. *shrug*

This makes things clear. To you, exp = time. One hour=7% or whatever, so dying and praying means a loss of X hours.

To me, exp != time. Experience is a game mechanism. Entertainment = time. If I die and lose 55%, I don't think in terms of bashing hours lost, I think about whether I was having fun. If I RP some interesting situations with tension, excitement, and end up losing a few levels during a day I don't go to bed thinking about the 15 hours it'll take to bash up to where I was - you do. That's the real difference.

Sure, the exp loss sucks when I die. It sucks when you die. It also sucks when a friend becomes more distant or some diplomacy I've been working on falls through. These are all factors of the dynamic world we live in - they are what make it have some substance. If you just wanted to chat and move a bar around really slowly, you could chat on AIM and count grains of sand or something.

Here's another tip: Gruhk is worth less experience than a few stainless steel goats. PK experience is very pathetic. Using an example from Achaea (which hasn't reduced PK exp), Jarik went from level 86 to 74 while keeping a 19-1 kill to death ratio, when almost all of his deaths were starbursts over a period of a few weeks. PKing for experience is a joke which may make sense to the exp=time period, but doesn't in real terms. It's part of Lusternia life. It's part of what makes Lusternia life good.

Hes right, the only people who ever get experience in PK really are the lucky lowbies who get a killing blow in group combat agansit a high level opponent...

For the most part, you have to not die once to make any progress... and unlike mobs where you can wipe out an entire city and nothing happen, players tend to come back in bigger numbers to exact revenge, meaning all PKers will eventually die, and die often. Its why I rarly PK... I like it enough to do it occasionally, but it makes no sense to live it as a way of life.

The people who do make it a way of life will in the end up a bush or in Newton.

If it is so great, and it makes Lusternia so good..why are there about 40 threads on PK in the limited time it has been open? Why is the poll ahead for lowering PK, and that is not only me who is voting for that option. It may be something YOU see as good, but I don't think the majority as a whole sees random killing as good and acceptable. We have gained many people, but we have LOST quite a few as well and i would guess more than those who stay for it.

As any of the people who PK'd me can say, I don't fight back usually. I don't want to be a fighter, and have no desire to do so. So obviously there is something else in their minds as to how I am the great harm to their well-being or cities...as to this date (I will repeat it again)...I have killed 0 celestians. I totally disagree that being from a city is acceptable reason to kill, as that opens Pandora's Box on total asenine killing sprees. If I suddenly starting killing folks from Celest, and raiding villages daily, then feel free to kill me everytime you see me. This doesn't happen though.

Now, I will ask it again, which those arguing me have not responded to yet. I have heard, "we don't need admin solutions to protect people". Why? What harm does it to do to you for those who don't want to PK or be PK'd to have a way to protect themselves from it? If they have agreed not to bring harm to you, unless you just mindlessly care to PK them, then why does it matter so much? (Note: if they come up with a system that accounts for aggressive actions such as bashing villages and defiling)

I do RP, and that is the aspect I enjoy the most and stick around for. I loved being able to participate in helping to find the Monastery with the robed Loboshigaru...and loved the hour long chat I had with the Blackjack Dealer in Magnagora. I don't mind dying....if it has a PURPOSE. I died to Gorgulu 3 times in that event that passed, and didn't once bitch about it. You again are missing the entire point of my argument which is the PK FOR NO REASON!!! If I get PK'd while in a village or enemy city...great...I have been killed a few times for that and said nothing. It is the mindless PK while doing absolutely nothing that is a total killer for people.

You can RP and chat, be a good productive player and not have to worry about PK or whatnot. If I choose to be a basher, or a ritualist or anything else, I bring as much businesswise to the company as anyone else. You have your right to PK others, but it should be others who accept PK and wish to train themselves in such. I however do not wish to build a massive system, and don't wish to learn how to fight so that should be my right.

I sincerely doubt any has ever scored a PK FOR NO REASON kill if you were in Magnagora, RPing it up and doing your thing. The people who die to these "random PK" things seem to be the people who:

Participate in events and RP and piss of X-group or person and then whine when they are later slain for it while sitting around on the highways AFK.