Rhysus2005-02-07 23:39:59
QUOTE(daganev @ Feb 7 2005, 06:34 PM)
In many sciences you have what I call the "Wham affect." For example in biology, you look at the tiny cell and how complicated and well structured it is. Your shown how all liver cells basically do the same thing. Then you ask your teacher "How does the liver know when to stop growing so that it gets its unique shape?" And the teacher properly responds "It just does ok!" Or they will be more fluent and say "There is a mechanism on the cell that physcially forces the cell to stop growing." So you ask "why does the edge cell have that but not the inner cells, how does it know its at the end?" You ask these questions and in all sciences (save maybe physics (well not quantum physics) and math) the answer, boiled down to all the nice lingo is "It just does ok!?"...
How is that any different than the answer "G-d made it that way."?
How is that any different than the answer "G-d made it that way."?
44434
You should ask Lacostian about the liver question. If his OOC knowledge approaches anything to do with his IC roleplay, he will know. If not, let me know, I'll get back to you.
Shiri2005-02-07 23:40:13
It means sarcastic. I thought you were asking if we knew what the Bible was, as if it was some sort of cure-all we should all regularly use.
The .s you put in sort of accentuated that. But I thought it was out of character for you to do that, so I thought I'd mention that I apologised if I was wrong. Which I was.
The .s you put in sort of accentuated that. But I thought it was out of character for you to do that, so I thought I'd mention that I apologised if I was wrong. Which I was.
Raan2005-02-07 23:40:54
Middle English, from Old French, from Late Latin biblia, from Greek, pl. of biblion, book diminutive of biblos, papyrus, book, from Bublos Byblos.]
Raan2005-02-07 23:42:24
I doubt this was ment to be a debate, as opposed to an open converstaion not meant to drive those off who do not wish to play ball in the mud.
Rhysus2005-02-07 23:42:53
QUOTE(Alyvia Gladheon @ Feb 7 2005, 06:37 PM)
Ok, we've been doing a lot of talking about what your knowledgeable in. Why not talk about what I'm knowledgable in? Why is creation not possible? What is the evidence against it? Is there enough factual evidence that you don't have to call upon faith to believe it?
I forgot I asked this a long time ago. I don't know what sarky is, but I'm sure it wasn't that...B.I.B.L.E means Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.
I forgot I asked this a long time ago. I don't know what sarky is, but I'm sure it wasn't that...B.I.B.L.E means Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth.
44437
I've been waiting for you to -present- what you know, Alyvia. The burden of proof does not lie upon science to disprove Creationism. It lies upon Creationism to disprove science. And I've never seen a thing to indicate that it has the capacity to do so.
And whoever made up that acronym should be laughed off the Earth themselves.
Daganev2005-02-07 23:44:42
OH, and no offense to the Christians out there, but "Christianity" happens to be one of those religions where the more you learn about -It- the more you tend to wonder if what they are teaching is True, while the more you learn about the teachings, the more inclined you are to accept them.
I find Judaism to be the exact opposite. Many Jews who learn the teachings of Judaism, but don't learn about Judaism tend to find it a bit "not so divine", but people who learn About Judaism, but don't really learn the teachings of Judaism tend to cling to it stronger.
Ofcourse, its always important to learn both About your Religion and the actual Teachings of the religion.
For example, the main reason you will rarely ever get an Educated Jew to convert to Christianity is because in Jewish law, You can not offer a sacrifice on behalf of someone unless you yourself also have to give that sacrifice. Meaning, the only way Jesus could die for my sins is if Jesus did all the sins I have ever and will ever do. To me that is learning About the religion, not the Teachings of the religion.
I find Judaism to be the exact opposite. Many Jews who learn the teachings of Judaism, but don't learn about Judaism tend to find it a bit "not so divine", but people who learn About Judaism, but don't really learn the teachings of Judaism tend to cling to it stronger.
Ofcourse, its always important to learn both About your Religion and the actual Teachings of the religion.
For example, the main reason you will rarely ever get an Educated Jew to convert to Christianity is because in Jewish law, You can not offer a sacrifice on behalf of someone unless you yourself also have to give that sacrifice. Meaning, the only way Jesus could die for my sins is if Jesus did all the sins I have ever and will ever do. To me that is learning About the religion, not the Teachings of the religion.
Unknown2005-02-07 23:45:19
About the liver thing, the cells know what to do because the instructions are coded in their DNA.
Unknown2005-02-07 23:47:02
You're sadly mistaken. The creation theory is more widely accepted. It was the belief of most of the world before evolution was introduced. If you're going to introduce a new idea, the burden of proof lies on you, not the rest of the world.
It would be like me saying, "I believe bananas are blue until you peel them. Prove me wrong."
It would be like me saying, "I believe bananas are blue until you peel them. Prove me wrong."
Daganev2005-02-07 23:49:20
Every cell has the exact same DNA in it. Thats a even more mystifying answer than "G-d did it" because that implies that cells have some sort of computational brain that allows them to read thier DNA.
Rhysus, I've said before I'm interested. Stop asking me if I want to be given stuff. I'm Jewish, ofcourse I like free stuff. (P.s if any of you not being Jewish, made that joke, I would have to smash you with my clubs)
Rhysus, I've said before I'm interested. Stop asking me if I want to be given stuff. I'm Jewish, ofcourse I like free stuff. (P.s if any of you not being Jewish, made that joke, I would have to smash you with my clubs)
Unknown2005-02-07 23:50:34
QUOTE(Alyvia Gladheon @ Feb 8 2005, 10:47 AM)
You're sadly mistaken. The creation theory is more widely accepted. It was the belief of most of the world before evolution was introduced. If you're going to introduce a new idea, the burden of proof lies on you, not the rest of the world.
44449
It is? Could have fooled me. I can honestly say I know absolutly no one who believes in a literal creationist view of the world. Creation as a metaphor for evolution, yes, but now as the Bible tells it.
Anyway, before the Christian version of creation was thought up by the guy who wrote Genesis, there were many other versions of how the world was created. What makes the Christian version superior?
Shiri2005-02-07 23:51:56
Now, on the other hand, far more people believe in scientific reasoning than religious reasoning. 1/3 of the world is atheist, and it's become increasingly a minority of the other 2/3rds of the world (which includes buddhists, taoists etc., both outnumbering Jews considerably) to believe in a literal creationist point of view. Even a lot of catholics don't believe that anymore. My parents believe the creation story was a metaphor for what really happened - God still exists, to them, but Adam and Eve and all the rest of it? Didn't happen in fact.
Daganev2005-02-07 23:53:28
Ok I have a question then, I have been bringing little tidbits of Jewish texts that have delt with the creation issue recognizing that the Book of Genesis (I much prefer this term now than bible) can not and should not be looked at 100% literal. Do Christian sources have the same thing or debates? I ask this because my knowledge of Christianity is that untill recently they did not like asking or talking about texts outside its literal meaning. However, the book of Genesis, atleast the first few chapters, CAN NOT be taken literaly because the meaning of "day" is not what we know "day" to mean. i.e Day would mean the 24 hours it takes for the sun to rise, set and rise again.
Rhysus2005-02-07 23:53:35
QUOTE(Alyvia Gladheon @ Feb 7 2005, 06:47 PM)
You're sadly mistaken. The creation theory is more widely accepted. It was the belief of most of the world before evolution was introduced. If you're going to introduce a new idea, the burden of proof lies on you, not the rest of the world.
It would be like me saying, "I believe bananas are blue until you peel them. Prove me wrong."
It would be like me saying, "I believe bananas are blue until you peel them. Prove me wrong."
44449
That's because the majority of the world is ignorant.
99% of the inhabitants world have no idea how nuclear power works. Doesn't mean it doesn't work!
Unknown2005-02-07 23:55:47
QUOTE(daganev @ Feb 7 2005, 05:49 PM)
Every cell has the exact same DNA in it. Thats a even more mystifying answer than "G-d did it" because that implies that cells have some sort of computational brain that allows them to read thier DNA.
Rhysus, I've said before I'm interested. Stop asking me if I want to be given stuff. I'm Jewish, ofcourse I like free stuff. (P.s if any of you not being Jewish, made that joke, I would have to smash you with my clubs)
Rhysus, I've said before I'm interested. Stop asking me if I want to be given stuff. I'm Jewish, ofcourse I like free stuff. (P.s if any of you not being Jewish, made that joke, I would have to smash you with my clubs)
44450
Every cell in one body has the exact same DNA. When cells replicate, they seperate the two halves of each DNA and send half the DNA to each new cell. The cell then recreates the match for each of the halves, with the end result being two cells with identical DNA.
Daganev2005-02-07 23:58:50
Are you sure only 1/3 of the world is Athiest? Russian and China both outlawed the existance of G-d quite a few years ago.
Oh, and Jews make up .02% of the worlds population. 22% of Nobel prize winners are Jewish. (Damn anti-semites!) 3 of the 4 most important people to modern (I think here modern means post idusrial revolution) thought were Jewish, and the 4th person was Darwin . Those 4 people being , Einstein, Freud, Marx, and Darwin. I only bring this up because I think its fun and silly, and completely ironic. However, at the same time, you can't discount the thoughts of a people just because they are a minority when they have proven to as influential as they have.
Oh, and Jews make up .02% of the worlds population. 22% of Nobel prize winners are Jewish. (Damn anti-semites!) 3 of the 4 most important people to modern (I think here modern means post idusrial revolution) thought were Jewish, and the 4th person was Darwin . Those 4 people being , Einstein, Freud, Marx, and Darwin. I only bring this up because I think its fun and silly, and completely ironic. However, at the same time, you can't discount the thoughts of a people just because they are a minority when they have proven to as influential as they have.
Unknown2005-02-08 00:00:34
QUOTE(Rhysus @ Feb 7 2005, 03:53 PM)
That's because the majority of the world is ignorant.
99% of the inhabitants world have no idea how nuclear power works. Doesn't mean it doesn't work!
99% of the inhabitants world have no idea how nuclear power works. Doesn't mean it doesn't work!
44458
YOU believe the world is ignorant, which is why you don't feel you have to argue your point. Come, brilliant Rhysus, enlghten us ignorant creationists.
100% of the inhabitants of the world don't know for certain how the world was created. We all have our own beliefs, but someone obviously has to be wrong. No one person is 100% correct in what they think. Things are lost in translation, the Bible has been rewritten in o many versions, I'm sure what I read isn't completely correct, but I'm willing to admit that. Where you seem to think that everyone who believes differently than you is wrong.
Silvanus2005-02-08 00:01:46
QUOTE(Alyvia Gladheon @ Feb 7 2005, 05:47 PM)
You're sadly mistaken. The creation theory is more widely accepted. It was the belief of most of the world before evolution was introduced. If you're going to introduce a new idea, the burden of proof lies on you, not the rest of the world.
It would be like me saying, "I believe bananas are blue until you peel them. Prove me wrong."
It would be like me saying, "I believe bananas are blue until you peel them. Prove me wrong."
44449
Over a half of the population has never heard of the theory of evolution or Darwin or such thing called the Scopes trial or anything similar to that.
Unknown2005-02-08 00:02:03
Jerry Seinfeld is Jewish.
*Hails*
*Hails*
Daganev2005-02-08 00:02:24
QUOTE(Guido Flagg @ Feb 7 2005, 03:55 PM)
Every cell in one body has the exact same DNA. When cells replicate, they seperate the two halves of each DNA and send half the DNA to each new cell. The cell then recreates the match for each of the halves, with the end result being two cells with identical DNA.
44460
Yes, I know how each cell gets identical DNA, but since each cell has the exact same DNA (save for some transcription errors) how does the middle cell of the liver know that its in the middle and need to divide, while the edge cell in the liver knows its on the edge and should hold its shape.
Or even how does your flipper for a hand know when to divine into 5 individual fingers and to start killing off the flipper skin? (thats what happens to Fetuss, not only do you grow 5 fingers, but your body also kills off cells that orginally form the more water like flipper)
Unknown2005-02-08 00:04:27
QUOTE(Alyvia Gladheon @ Feb 8 2005, 11:00 AM)
100% of the inhabitants of the world don't know for certain how the world was created. We all have our own beliefs, but someone obviously has to be wrong. No one person is 100% correct in what they think. Things are lost in translation, the Bible has been rewritten in o many versions, I'm sure what I read isn't completely correct, but I'm willing to admit that. Where you seem to think that everyone who believes differently than you is wrong.
44464
Thank you. That is all I ever want to hear when someone is trying to argue any point. If someone can admit they might be wrong then that is enough for me.