Creation and evolution

by Unknown

Back to The Real World.

Silvanus2005-02-08 00:04:46
QUOTE(Guido Flagg @ Feb 7 2005, 05:55 PM)
Every cell in one body has the exact same DNA. When cells replicate, they seperate the two halves of each DNA and send half the DNA to each new cell. The cell then recreates the match for each of the halves, with the end result being two cells with identical DNA.
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Cells actually create the exact opposite of the DNA, called RNA, which sends it to a new cell, which then translates it into the same DNA.
Daganev2005-02-08 00:06:12
The most amount of Jews who were ever on the planet at the same time was 20 Million. The Chinese census margin of Error is 48 Million. The Chinese calendar is some 4,000 years old, the Jewish calendar is 5,000 years old. The question begs to be asked... "How did the Jewish people survive for 1,000 years without Chinese food?"
Unknown2005-02-08 00:06:22
QUOTE(Quidgyboo @ Feb 7 2005, 06:04 PM)
clap_1.gif

Thank you. That is all I ever want to hear when someone is trying to argue any point. If someone can admit they might be wrong then that is enough for me.
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As i've said, as soon as you admit that you may be wrong you lose a validity.
Shiri2005-02-08 00:07:14
QUOTE(daganev @ Feb 8 2005, 12:58 AM)
Are you sure only 1/3 of the world is Athiest? Russian and China both outlawed the existance of G-d quite a few years ago.

Oh, and Jews make up .02% of the worlds population.  22% of Nobel prize winners are Jewish. (Damn anti-semites!)  3 of the 4 most important people to modern (I think here modern means post idusrial revolution) thought were Jewish, and the 4th person was Darwin smile.gif.  Those 4 people being , Einstein, Freud, Marx, and Darwin.  I only bring this up because I think its fun and silly, and completely ironic.  However, at the same time, you can't discount the thoughts of a people just because they are a minority when they have proven to as influential as they have.
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Just because Russia and China OUTLAWED the religion doesn't mean that people don't still believe in it. And quite a lot of China is Shinto, isn't it?

QUOTE
100% of the inhabitants of the world don't know for certain how the world was created.

And since you're now admitting this, Alyvia, I'm going to say that that was entirely what my earlier argument was about - the one that you disagreed with. Since you just posted that, I'll assume you misinterpreted my words the first time, hence the post about why I shouldn't say what people think. Just wanted to clarify that, then. happy.gif
Unknown2005-02-08 00:08:09
QUOTE(Silvanus @ Feb 7 2005, 06:04 PM)
Cells actually create the exact opposite of the DNA, called RNA, which sends it to a new cell, which then translates it into the same DNA.
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Well, I don't have it down perfectly, but doesn't the RNA just tell the cell how to make the DNA?
Unknown2005-02-08 00:08:12
QUOTE(Guido Flagg @ Feb 8 2005, 11:06 AM)
As i've said, as soon as you admit that you may be wrong you lose a validity.
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You're wrong tongue.gif .

What exactly is a validity? Just sounds like a bit of an ego battle to me. It takes more fortitude to know you might be wrong than to be stubborn.
Unknown2005-02-08 00:08:47
QUOTE(Guido Flagg @ Feb 7 2005, 04:06 PM)
As i've said, as soon as you admit that you may be wrong you lose a validity.
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When you state you're the only person who is correct, you lose a lot more.
Daganev2005-02-08 00:12:01
Shinto is a religion in Japan, not China. Though the 1985 census for China did show a population of 5 jews.(sadly it did not list thier names, so I can't go look them up) So I'm sure there are plenty of people in China who believe in all sorts of religions.

Those countries did not outlaw the belief in a religion they outlawed the very existance of a god. Which means that for atleast 2 generations, nobody was allowed to tell anybody else that god could possibly exist. How many people do you know that think Dragons might exist? There are many Russian Jews who were rescued and moved to Israel in the 80s, who knew they were Jewish, prayed in secret temples in Russia, smuggled in Kosher food, and wanted to be in Israel with all the other Jews but argued emphatically that god did not exist.
Unknown2005-02-08 00:14:17
QUOTE(Quidgyboo @ Feb 7 2005, 06:08 PM)
You're wrong  tongue.gif .

What exactly is a validity? Just sounds like a bit of an ego battle to me. It takes more fortitude to know you might be wrong than to be stubborn.
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Yes, ego is the heart of it. Ego is good, ego is great. You hit the nail on the head.

Anyway, i'm tired. I'm going to go... yell at some Moondancers, I dunno.
Daganev2005-02-08 00:14:28
The process of diving a cell and making a copy of DNA is very complicated. RNA doesn't "just do" anything. I find it a miracle that DNA transcription errors are so small. My computer corrupts more data in 2 hours than the entire Biological process has over 100 years.
Shiri2005-02-08 00:14:29
Fair enough. I could've sworn there were Shinto/Buddhist things in Hong Kong though.

Also, dragons do exist. They live in Komodo. *hide*
Daganev2005-02-08 00:16:23
Rhysus, I'm still waiting for that information that explains how MacroEvolution is possible.

What on god's green earth made that first animal think it was a good idea to fall from a tree to get it to grow wings?
Daganev2005-02-08 00:18:49
so yeah, back to the point... Population size or the amount of people who think an idea is true means nothing.

It only took one Einstein to make many people think that -everything- is relative.
Silvanus2005-02-08 00:25:30
QUOTE(Shiri @ Feb 7 2005, 06:14 PM)
Fair enough. I could've sworn there were Shinto/Buddhist things in Hong Kong though.

Also, dragons do exist. They live in Komodo. *hide*
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Hong Kong is actually dominantly Christian (being owned by United Kingdom for 150 years might do that), China is all sorts of things, Buddhism, Hinduism, Christian, Muslim, Mahayana.. etc

Sorry it took so long, had a computer error, which resulted in my death at the hands of Ethelon.
Shiri2005-02-08 00:30:15
Eh, I don't know, just going off what a guy in my class that lived 12 years in Hong Kong said.
Daganev2005-02-08 00:33:17
I realized my question to Christians could be slightly insulting...

So I'll rephrase, "do you guys have texts that explain the creation in a non literal way, and if you don't how do you explain the fact that Day is discused during day 1, but the sun is not created until day 4? Especially since the Light was called day and Dark was called night, but stars, sun and moon did not exist.
Unknown2005-02-08 00:33:45
Ok, time to go cook dinner like a good degraded Christian women. (Sarcasm) I do cook and clean and junk, but that's because I have a part time job, while the rest of my family works full time.
Unknown2005-02-08 00:37:42
QUOTE(daganev @ Feb 7 2005, 04:33 PM)
I realized my question to Christians could be slightly insulting...

So I'll rephrase, "do you guys have texts that explain the creation in a non literal way, and if you don't how do you explain the fact that Day is discused during day 1, but the sun is not created until day 4? Especially since the Light was called day and Dark was called night, but stars, sun and moon did not exist.
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Because the human mind can't comprehend what it was like before day and night. It's the same reason the bible mentions the hand of God and his footsteps in the garden, even though he has no form we can comprehend. Just gives our minds something to grasp.

And don't gimme the "Humans made in God's image" thing to say He does have a solid form, in the Bible when he casts Adam and Eve out he gives them "garments of skin"
Daganev2005-02-08 00:43:13
right, G-d's hand is not ment to be taken literraly. Its a metaphor for the fact that g-d did not use his angels but rather broke his own rules for this event to happen, and did it out of strength and not mercy.

So why then is Day ment to be taken litterally as a 24 hour period, and not a metaphor for an era or any period of time?

Edit, I believe Genesis use the word day, because it was not only a period or era, but it is a lesson that your own day should be thought as its own period or era. Also, not only did the events that happen during day one take perhaps 3billion years, but it also happened over an instance. Is Genesis trying to tell me, that G-d Said "let there be light" and he did not say anything again for another 24 hours untill he spoke to seperate the waters? Rather G-d spoke in 10 sayings over the period of seven "days" that later mirror the 10 commandments and the 7 weeks between the exodus of Egypt and Revelation.

We do not know from Genesis alone how long each day was. The verse in psalms says that each day to god is 1,000 years. Its for this reason that the Jewish belief is that the Messiah will arive on the eve of the 7th day. i.e. in the year 6000.(current year being 5765) But perhaps also each day was 1,000 years, or each day was but an instant, or each day was 1 billion years.
Raan2005-02-08 00:52:02
Rhysus, if you want to debate, debate against this. All truely intrested in this thread should probably read the full text.

QUOTE
The Latter-day Saints have four basic Adam stories, those found in the Bible, the book of Moses, the book of Abraham, and the temple�each seen from a different angle, like the four Gospels, but not conflicting if each is put into its proper context. And what is that context? One vitally important principle that everyone seems to have ignored until now is the consideration that everything is presented to us in these accounts through the eyes, or from the point of view of, the individual observers who tell the story. Historians long ago came to realize that the boast of German Geschichtswissenschaft�to report what happened at all times "wie es eigentlich geschah," the whole truth, the complete event in holistic perfection as it would be seen by the eye of God�is a philosopher's pipe dream. And, indeed, it is from the philosophers that we got it, rooted as the fathers and the doctors are in the sublime absolutes of Alexandria: There is God and God only, and his holy and infallible book was written by his very finger, untouched by the human mind. We must credit the Moslems with carrying this doctrine all the way. Not only is it the crime of Shirk to credit the existence of anything besides God, but his book is as divine and ineffable as he is. I have been told that it is presumptuous for mortals, let alone infidels, to pretend to understand anything in it.

The Latter-day Saints, inheritors of the Christian version of this teaching, are constantly converting statements of limited application to universal or at least sweeping generalities. To illustrate, I was told as a child that the Rocky Mountains, the Appalachians, and the Andes all came into existence overnight during the great upheavals of nature that took place at the time of the Crucifixion�an absurdity that plays into the hands of critics of the Book of Mormon. But what we find in the 3 Nephi account when we read it carefully is a few sober, factual, eyewitness reports describing an earthquake of 8-plus on the Richter scale in a very limited area. Things that appear unlikely, impossible, or paradoxical from one point of view often make perfectly good sense from another. The Nautical Almanac gives the exact time of sunrise and sunset for every day of the year, yet astronauts know that the sun neither rises nor sets except from a particular point of view, the time of the event being strictly dependent on the exact location. From that point of view and that only, it is strictly correct and scientific to say that the sun does rise and set. Just so, the apparently strange and extravagant phenomena described in the scriptures are often correct descriptions of what would have appeared to a person in a particular situation. You and I have never been in those situations. To describe what he sees to people who have never seen anything like it, the writer must reach for metaphors and similes: "His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow;� his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters." (D&C 110:3; italics added.) There was no fire, no snow, no rushing waters, but that is as near as Joseph Smith and Sidney Ridgon could come to telling us what they experienced when "the veil was taken from minds, and the eyes of understanding were opened!" (D&C 110:1.) They were reporting as well as they could what they had seen from a vantage point on which we have never stood.


There are few people who can stand up in a debate against this author and survive. I suggest our resident champion go through and have a look wink.gif


EDIT: link http://farms.byu.edu/display.php?table=transcripts&id=73


Read the full LINKED text before responding please, or dont bother, as you will only put your foot in your mouth.