Awesome, you just trashed all the complaints of the alchemists, Laysus is one of the most active refillers of the realms, so...quit bitching about alchemy not making profit.

So... Rowena is killable? Though for some reason I picture some Magnagorans standing as sentries guarding her. Killing her must require quite a ploy.

Not really - she's weak compared to people in other realms. I imagine Narsrim can easily solo her

If what all of you poor, poor alchemists are saying is true, and it's too unprofitable to even bother, then supply would shoot down. As supply shoots down and demand stays the same, the price shoots up.

The price isn't shooting up, proving yet again that a lot of you are lying.

I was standing right there when he did, it was quite easy.

I started in the commune, and saw Lord Auseklis's post on herbs and how they can fend for themselves. I hate to say this, but he is patron of the Serenwilde...there are herbalists in other cities so he can't really rip apart a worldwide attempt at some form of organization. Even a simple clan would help just to organize efforts on who is planting what and making sure we keep all herbs in supply.

As far as Alchemy goes, all the tradeskills are pretty crappy as far as making money or profit. I'm an herbalist and the time it takes me to harvest herbs for 3k, I could have gotten 10k for bashing in that time. Not selling isn't the way to go, as that will cause Lusternia to sink lower to the depths of MUDS that suck. Already, I'm not really logging in as there is no point to not being able to bash, and if i start paying Bob again, I will go broke. Now my question is this...the cities have the monopoly on enchantments..there are 2 cities. There is only one commune so therefore one place where you can get alchemy. You are blaming herbalists for their greed in killing your tradeskill, but you are obviously wanting to BRING ABOUT the downfall of you tradeskill.

Look at from my end:

1. You are pointing out others greed, when you kill the only person other than you who can refill. Then stop refilling on your own.

2. Cities each are able to make enchantments (2 cities), and there is only one commune that can make alchemy. They added a second source for alchemy, and your commune keeps killing her so there is again only one source. Much like I look at Bill Gates as a greedy ahole, should I look at you that way?


Please, just go an bitch to Rowena already about her prices.

Here is why I don't refill:

Let's consider the components of a health elixir:

8 galingale
2 sargassum
1 juniper
1 yarrow

Given that most herbs sell for 10 per (yarrow can be more expensive but not much more), we find that 8+2+1+1=12*10=120

Thus, it takes roughly 110-130 (given market flux) gold + power reserves (albeit you can use a powerstone) to make a health elixir.

Before Rowena, people expected and demanded health elixirs for no more than 200 gold each. Given there is no cartel for alchemy, regulating it becomes impossible. Serenwilde is filled with those alchemists who try to undercut everyone else and instead will sell health elixirs for 175 gold (and yes, I would sacrifice each and everyone of them to Nil if I so had the power), etc.

Back to the point, the question remains why any alchemist would waste his or her time for ~80 gold per elixir. Given that it can be time consuming and depletes bulk herbs, it is a better deal to pop over to Glomdoring, Earth, Water, or Astral and just kill 1 mob. You gain experience and you gain that much gold if not more (far more on Astral) AND you didn't lose any herbs in the process (such that you don't spend 50% of time running around like crazy trying to buy the galingale before it is overharvested again).

Given we are all rational people, why turn up the exp + gold + no herbs used + corpses (if you are in an Order) versus the same amount of gold, fighting to get to alembic (I had to wait for 20 minutes the other day), etc?

Actually, Rowena is rather nasty. She isn't easy although not nearly as tough as the Ebonglom Wyrm (which I can solo as well). However, I'd speculate that 95% of Serenwilde couldn't come close to killing her on their own so really, it isn't -that- bad.

Sell 20 refills, that's not too bad. 1.6k for about 5 minutes of work?

The fact that it isn't worth -your- time is irrelevant. The fact is it's worth a lot of alchemists' time. The market is fine.

There has been a clan for herbalists and alchemists since nearly day one. It includes folks from all three city/commune organizations. There are recommendations on minimum pricings, hibernation calendars, and other tips provided, but in the end it's entirely up to the herbalists to be smart about their trade.

Everyone is quick to point and say that people are overharvesting all the time, when in truth it's usually the hibernation periods that have just wiped out most of the herbs and many herbalists are too lazy/busy to replant entire regions.

You also have to remember that these huge, sprawling demesnes are killing the herbs pretty easily, too. People who do not harvest the herbs typically do not even know where or when they grow, and so they're unknowingly killing plants with their activities. The public needs to be educated more than the herbalists or alchemists.

That seems a little harsh, especially since I would expect demand to follow a little more slowly. Not everyone just downs their vials like they're dying of thirst and any liquid will do.

I'm likely to believe laysus over anyone who is saying alchemy isn't worth it.

If its really all that bad, I'll take alchemy and you can have forging.

Forging sounds good to me, I'd just wear the fullplate, and put runes on it

And as for alchemy, there are a lot of people selling for 150 Narsrim, not just 175.

Which alchemist pays 10 gold coins per herb for the healing potion? I would assume that you better count with 8 gold coins per herb so 12 *8 = 96 gold coins. Sell your health at 175 to 200 and you will always be cheaper than Rowena. And if you are a herbalist and can provide the herbs you will get your refill for 50 to 100 gold coins. I think that a normal alchemist will still make some profit, or?
As it is the same with all trade skills, only because you have the skill doesn't mean that you can earn good gold, it needs more than that. And Rowena won't change anything with that.

Actually, with the herbs for health, my average of maximum and minimum i'd be paying for them came out at nearly exactly 100gp

Edit: and personally, I only sell below 160gp (my rate for commune members and for bulk orders) if there's someone else offering lower and I need the customers. Or if they're asking for amazingly large amounts of refills, then the profit's worth it.

8 galingale
2 sargassum
1 juniper
1 yarrow

galingale ........... 1,348 ............................... 10gp
sargassum ........... 2,000 ................................ 6gp
juniper ............. 1,953 ................................ 5gp
yarrow .............. 1,966 ................................ 9gp


106 gold for the herbs for a health vial from Iasmos. I remember Summer being cheaper once.

As a tailor, I charge between 20 and 30% on top of commodity cost. You can charge 100% on top of comm cost and make pure profit.

Become a poisonist. Muhahahahahah.

From the ridiculously overcomplicated Excel spreadsheet I've got:


SUB = subtotal (just herbs)
PCST = power cost (i use this in bulk calculations)
TCST = my total cost
SELL = my sell price

I mark things up to 200% of how much I sell 'em for, and I can't keep any galingale in my rift longer than five minutes. Alchemy is a useless trade skill? Pssh. Only reason I haven't been filling much is because I'm out of galingale, and I can't find any to buy.

I'm actually burned out on alchemy right now - there was at least one point where I'd start bashing, and after 2 minutes...



Then five or so other people would ask while I was doing them for the first, and then I'd never get anything done.

On behalf of Magnagora, if you are convinced Alchemy isn't worth it. We will gladly take the skillset off your hands!

Yes, I know, wishful thinking.

Simply put, it seems to me that the order of demand in terms of tradeskill goes like this: Herbalism, Alchemy, Poisoning, Enchantment.

Then every other tradeskill takes a back seat to those, and/or requires a shop to be lucrative. Some need to be transed to provide a profit at all. I've never seen people asking on market if there's a cook selling them food whenever they get hungry. I haven't seen people desperately searching for a tailor on market either. Herbalism, Alchemy and Poisoning are all essential to combat, where as other tradeskills are not.

You could still charge 200 gold per refill if you wanted to. It'd still be cheaper from an alchemist than from Rowena, not to mention that you can give more sips than she can. I know it seems like herbalists can just undercut you, because they would then sell at (200 gold - herbs + vial).

Really though, an Herbalist has to pay Rowena 200 gold to make the potion and has to use up a vial. So, the herbalist cannot profit if he or she sells for <= 200 gold. Also, the herbs the herbalist gives do not bring the cost to them under 200 gold, as they still have to pay exactly 200 gold to Rowena before the potion itself is made. The cost for an herbalist to create a potionis more or less like: 200 gold + (herbsRequiredByRowena - HerbsSupplied/CheapnessOfHerbs) + vial. I say HerbsSupplied/CheapnessOfHerbs because herbs aren't really free for herbalists, but they are just pickable. I could kill a black rat and get 35 gold, while you pick an herb that's worth 10 gold. So, there's an opportunity cost to picking the herbs, which equals some amount in gold.

In closing, I think herbalism is and will always be the most lucrative of all proffesions in Lusternia (barring something earthshattering), with alchemy a distant second; but you still beat out most other proffessions in terms of money, demand, need for connections, and don't require an investment in a shop. Of course, people who have connections and other advantages may undercut you, but this includes other alchemists as well.