Can you steal spores? Does that highmagic ability stop them from leaving? Can you instantly paralyse them if they vitae? can you instantly break their legs if they vitae?

Why doesn't walking take power? If someone is able to just -leave- when I'm fighting them, surely they must have to spend power to do so, right? Do the two escape tarot take power to use? Does flow? Does teleport or summon? Does lust? Does sprint? Does burrow?

Edit: Also, you didn't answer my question. How do you strip lich? I wonder if that is a bug?

Also, spores -do- have restrictions, Tuek has posted them. Vitae -is- a death, Lich -is- a death, dying on the outer planes -is- a death. The escaping via spores you are disputing occurs -after- death. It is a great ability, I'm not denying it. But why must our class have no advantages or areas in which we excel? Why must every aspect of Moondancers be at or below what other guilds possess?

The change I have proposed would ensure no one can cry overpowered on Mushrooms, and I think it is better from an RP slant as well.

Sure, and I'll never get another alchemy refill for the next 6 RL months.



I don't know the answer to this, but if it takes a trans skill in a secondary skillset to stop it, thats pretty crappy even if it DOES work.



A) No, I'm busy recovering balance from killing them. 2) I don't have any way to paralyse except the random chance that a venom hits them and they don't shrug it. In other words, no, I really can't.


You're kidding, right? Or this is rhetorical? Even if I had a skill that could instantly break legs (and I'm a tae'dae bone crusher, if anyone could do it it would be me) I'd have to BEAT HIS REFLEX TIMING to do it before he spores, because there is NO delay in how fast he can snort.



walking != instant unstoppable transport to a forest far away where if I give chase, I get enemied for bringing my conflict to the forest and never get refills again. Also, the forest doesn't like liches, remember? . I have ways to stop people from walking (like carcer) that doesn't go away when they die, and even if they walk, I have a chance to walk and catch up, whereas I can never somehow 'follow' a snorter. This analogy simply doesn't work.



ALL of these have limitations. They can be stopped by monos in some cases (not spores!) or have to be done in a forest (not spores!) or require another person as an anchor (not spores!) or using a skill/tarot card (not spores!) or requires a specific terrain type for digging (not spores!) or require some significant amount of time for teleporting or summoning (not spores!)...In other words, they ALL have limitations. In comparing spores to the abilities it most resembles, and looking at the changes to those skills to prevent instant escape after death, the common factor is that it COSTS POWER (well, and that they are skills highly placed in skill trees, that is a whole additional problem with spores). I'm terribly confused why so many people don't understand this?

/edit replying to edit:
1. the Inquisition skill can strip the seed of liching that lets us escape our next death. This has been discussed in other threads, I think it is working properly now, and it is not a bug.
2. I don't have a problem in general with post-death escaping. I have lich, and ghost, and I've used both to escape some scrapes. However, I think an instant, unstoppable, long distance escape skill that doesn't require any particular skill or power is a little on the overdone side. For me to escape death (AS A MASTER OF NECROMANCY) I am spending at least 10 power per death for lichdom, which I have to put back up after a lich death every time, AND more power for ghost. Changes were made so people couldn't chant lich after coming back as a lich, AND changes were made so we can't ghost right after coming back as a lich (due to BOTH eq loss and power loss). I'm not saying you shouldn't have any strengths, I'm just saying powers should have limitations and counters (lich and ghost have both, in large quantities, and also negative effects during the day), should require people to invest in skills instead of picking up a freaking mushroom, and should make sense to the archetype and skills...and frankly, I became a necromancer specifically for the 'evading death' type skills. This really should be a necromancer strongpoint, yet spores outclasses our abilities on every level...

If everything I suggested went through, do you still have a dispute?

I wouldn't, it would fix the whole ZOMG EVERYONE IN SEERNWILDE CAN UES SPORES ITS OVERPWERED NERFNERFNERFNERF thing, while still making spores very useable (and maybe even better) for the person who actually spent lessons to get the skill in Wicca.

Yes! I don't care what the setup power cost is, it needs to cost power at the time it is used, and it should have some sort of restriction or preventative that could stop a person from snorting. Lower the set up cost if you have to, put it high in a moondancer skill list, and make it use some power at the time of snorting.

Also, I'm not sure what this 'mushroom circles are dangerous for mortals' stuff means...does that mean even if I could chase them all the way to their little room in the forest, if I entered the room I'd get fried?

I could kill Daevos, but I'd never be able to craft Jewelry. Besides which, why are you -killing- someone if you don't want to annoy his guild?

Let me use walking just once more. This skill exists to stop walking right? ... that must be pretty crappy.

Then maybe you need an extra helper? Because you don't have the means of stopping it, but it exists, doesn't mean you have to have it. Work with someone else to achieve your goals.

Fine, do any of the things that stops spores then. Can't you reflex to do it as well? If we must balance things so that everyone has a chance to beat reflexes, I want a LOT of changes, because on dialup you simply are at too much of a disadvantage in combat.

Actually, I believe you can follow a snorter. And it turns out the forest loves liches, we are just all hunky dory with undeath and taint now .

Um, thats what I'm trying to address. Accept these changes, and problem solved!

OK, seriously here:

1. You killing Daevos has nothing to do with jewelry. Your question was whether I could STEAL spores, and I said not if I ever wanted refills. Then you turn it into me killing someone and why shouldn't that piss off his guild? Not only is that NOT the issue, but it highlights the problem with this monopoly. Please don't twist my response into the answer to some question other then the one you asked.

2. greater pentagram stops a lot of things. It is useful in many ways. I don't know if it stops spores (though I'd bet money on no) but regardless, the counters to every other skill aren't TRANS HIGHMAGIC skills.

3. You missed the point where I don't have an 'instantly break someone's legs' skill, so reflexing doesn't help. Plus, there's no reason I should have to take a person whose only job is stand there with a reflex for when he dies and HOPE that our reflex beats his. That's lame.

4. Follow a snorter? Great idea. Especially since then I'd be 'bringing my conflict to the forest' and undoubtedly get enemied for life. No more refills for me! And then I'd be in the forest, where moondancers could own me even more easily! Geez, why didn't I think of this? Oh, lets not forget that it takes balance for me to follow and losing me is easier then me following.

I stick to the point that spores needs to have a power cost -at the time of usage- and be a skill in wicca or whatever, AND have a counter that is meaningful (not the list of afflictions Tuek posted, all of which are cured on death/vitae) before I'd consider it balanced. As it is, it is patently absurd.

That's fine, as an opinion. I'd love for ghost to be stopped entirely by eye sigils, or a way to entirely stop someone from ghosting in my area. However, I realize that it is a great offensive skill for the necromancer, and just because I don't like it, doesn't mean it has to change.

Please read the original post again. It would drain your willpower and endurance, maybe give a benefit or two to the Moondancer. Annoying, yes, but hardly life-threatening.

This is the one thing that has always annoyed me about spores. We create these beautiful mystical mushroom circles, but they are only used for this ugly snorting business, by anyone. I would have thought that a Fae gathering place would have some sort of sacred significance, at least to Moondancers, but it doesn't.

1. When I was enemied to Magnagora, I had -no- way of purchasing silver or platinum. That is what I mean by destroying my tradeskill, which even our stupid elixir monopoly can't do. Your argument here was that if you stole spores, you would be enemied. My point was, if you're stealing spores to stop them from snorting when you attack them... why draw the line at killing but not stealing?

2. Sure, let Serenwilders strip lich via INVOKE SPRING. I'd hate for it to take a trans skill to stop. Mind you, our trans wicca skill, toadcurse, is stopped by drinking mana. Our perceived most powerful skill in Moon is stopped by a shield.

3. Actually, I didn't. I said do whatever it takes instead. If your argument is that systems are unfair, take it to that thread.

4. I didn't say it would be smart, but you said it was impossible. That was wrong.

In my opinion, the ones who think it is absurd are in the minority. Oh, and I think Auseklis said something about spores being alright somewhere... I might have to search for it and transcribe it here.

OK, I'm pretty much done with this argument, since we're not going to convince the other of anything. However, this is not a comparable situation. Your inability to buy comms was because of Magnagora's hard work owning villages, and a change in that would change the comm distribution around the world. There is NO such option for alchemy...no matter how hard Magnagora works, all Serenwilde has to do is push the magic (and unintentional) button to tradeban and we're damaged in a very serious way. There is nothing in the game that compares to the economic advantage that has been handed to Serenwilde, and this is certainly not on par.

Beyond that, consider my part done. I do congratulate your desire to make it a skill in wicca, and to increase the RP surrounding it, but we're clearly not going to agree on the power issue. So, I'll let someone else chime in, and you won't have to answer me any more

And every single skill an Ur'guard has is blocked by applying health... whats your point?

Well, I thought the point was made that we should have all our skills only blocked by transcendant city-common skills. I was just pointing out that in fact, even our most powerful other skills are blocked rather easily.

I guess you don't realize that "sipping mana" does not block your skills. Thats like saying "killing someone" blocks thier skills.

Actually, you're right. So I'll leave it with the feared Rage of the Moon being stopped by an untrained shield.

In answer to a question from a while ago, no, Serenguard have no get-away skills (save the ones everyone has), nor any skills to keep foes from getting away (save for "engage" -- hah).

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Since I'm feeling lazy, I'm reusing an old thread rather than creating a new one.

Could the Shadowdancers/Moondancers produce different mushroom circles for the different forest types... with the Shadowdancer spores poisonous (like crotamine) to non-Glomgloms?

That way, Serenwildebeasts won't be able to make mushrooms in Glomdoring, and vice versa.

Why?

Elryn, this makes little sense.

This spores issue was addressed in my envoy report. We will see where it goes. I have asked for spores to be useable by Wiccans only. Furthermore, I have asked for any Wiccan to be able to Faereturn a circle they find at whim. This should fix a lot of the current problems.

Meh, I thought it would be cool to have deadly nightshade circles.

It was only in response to Visaeris worried about mushroom circles in Glomdoring. Its not essential or anything (unlike changes to flow).

First off, Elryn's ideas never make much sense, they're either fueled by baseless bitterness or sarcastic euforie.

Second off, referring to the quote: you just don't know a lot do you?