Actually, if Serenwilde allies with Celest and turns into a "Forest of Light" I'm sure there's a couple of people that will get quite annoyed.

I still say that the reason people bitch about forestals is what Auseklis said right up a the beginning of this thread: 90% of the time, forestals 1) don't fight 2) tend to be happy "lets hug a tree" types and 3) When they do argue, theyr argument is usually "we're forestals" and then "herb/potion ban".

Elryn, in this case, I actually believe the alchemy thing is the "big picture" compared to the Serenwilde losing its identity. Granted, it's infuriating that we will be forced to do that (I know we will. You're right. Until Gaudiguch/Hallifax arrive, anyway.), but I...dunno, I just see the alchemy situation as quite a problem. Maybe I'm being too materialistic? Perhaps. But if anything they're at least of similar importance.

Aye, Shiri, but there are alternatives that can do both - Ackleberry, or even a non-tainted but evil Glomdoring.

Currently, Serenwilde is the only organisation with an "intricate idealogy". Magnagora is the "dark" city, Celest is the "light" city, and the two consistently fight. Serenwilde is the "neutral" power. IMO, Magnagora has the weakest and most shield-like RP (meaning that all Magnagora does is hide behind its historical beliefs in order to justify its actions), while Celest has a tolerable but still fairly atypical RP (diametrically opposed to the Taint and thus the City of Taint, but still with the freedom to actually develop interesting RP's, as Light, for once, is not synonymous with goodness. Erion was a prime example of this.. Before he was kicked out, naturally). Serenwilde, in the meanwhile, has perhaps the richest and most intricate idealogy, as you put it, but nontheless they seem to be falling into the old Forestal standby of "ZOMGZOMG HERBBAN" the second they feel threatened.

Personally, I think if we put someone with some intellect, and someone who was conscious of RP in charge of Glomdoring (if and when it returns) we could see a forest diametrically opposed to most organisations which currently exist. It could forge temporary alliance with Magnagora, true, but if it holds true to its beliefs, it'll pull a Rowena when it deems necessary and screw Magnagora over. Ackleberry may or may not be a Serenwilde clone, but (and I'm fairly biased) I'd still prefer to take my chances with the Tainted forest.

I think assumption about glomdoring are going to be false.

There are only so many villages to go around.
A Tainted commune will hate cities as much as a non tainted commune would.
Glomdoring will want to show Magnagora it is stronger and use its alchemy as a weapon, Magnagora will want to show Glomdoring that they are only a servant of the empire.

Your arguments appear to be based on the idea that Glomdoring will be full of Magnagoran loyalitsts and not have its own will and drive and feelings of indepedance.

Some in glomdoring may even be so focused on material wealth that they will do thier best to make sure they have customers from Celest and Serenwilde and Magnagora and Glomdoring.

Treaties will have to be made, conssesions, and egos battled against.

Nobody, save the people who plan on becoming leaders there, knows what direction glomdoring will take. I think you make too many assumptions about Life and Taint being apposed to eachother, and I'm sure Glomdoring will have a philosphy that will embrace the wilds of Nature, the cycle of life, and the power of the Taint.

As Shiri said, the issue here is the political power of the alchemy monopoly and everything else is frustrated dressing.

Glomdoring is too much work, the situation needs to be addressed with npc potions

...well, in the long term, I still want Glomdoring back, but high-price NPC potions will do for now.

I'd prefer if Serenwilde was told not to use its alchemy-monopoly, and the cities were told not to use their enchantment-'monopoly.'

That would be nice.
But I can't see any IC reason why that would be told to them.

Even when if 10 communes exist, each commune would still use its ability to potionban as much as it could.

I challenge someone to come up with an IC reason why they should not do it.

I GOT IT!

Without the flow of elixirs across the Basin, herbs begin to multiply and grow rampant, becoming wild in some areas, killing off animals or something.

...sell more to Serenwilders? Nuh uh, try again. *G*

Everyone knows that the overproduction of said product will lower prices. Just look at the Great Depression, an excellent example of over-production. If there is over-production of herbs, because the lack of alchemy being spread out, then herb prices will drop down to..

Well, it'd drop down 250%.

I think herbs are allready being picked to thier maximum, and plenty complain about that.

Yeah some herbs are constantly being picked right down to dying point. We almost have to have around the areas where the specially sought after herbs grow and hervest them as soon as they produce one more. As you know as soon as you leave someone other herbalist will sneak around and swipe them all.

That makes me want to go like this

Etain is constantly trying to replant. People sometimes even come behind and pick the three galingale seeds it takes to plant it!

Actually, my arguments are based on what I've seen of Serenwilde's struggle for identity, and our fight to follow the histories rather than opportunism. Can you imagine what things would be like if Serenwilde were also devoted followers of the Light? That we still had our distrust of cities and hatred of taint, but that Light was our primary philosophy? Tell me how long you think our animosity towards Celest would last.

Also, the argument that a tainted commune would hate cities is far too much of an assumption. There is no reason for such a belief. Serenwilde disliked cities because they didn't follow the spirits, and they were too power-hungry and expansionist. Why would Glomdoring have a problem with that?

And yes, as I've argued in another thread, I believe Life and Taint are antithetical, moreso than Light and Taint, which are opposed to each other, but not conceptually polarized.

Why would Serenwilde become devoted to the Light?
Glomdoring will be proof that Life and Taint are not antithetical, since they will be most likely be blending the two.
Glomdoring will not like cities because they don't follow the spirits, and they are expansionst in ways that do not allow what is there to grow and be Tainted.

In Achaea, I'm pretty sure you had three guilds capable of making refills. For conviniency, most of the guild members from those guilds assembled in a village (of course, not everyone was forced to join) or were members of Oakstone, or were completely stuck to their guild. Also, to be even able of refilling meant you could spend a whole bunch of time trying to doing interviews and control checks until someone decided to give you class. In any instance, even if you were rogue and refiller, you have people from organizations like Oakstone that could enemy you the forest and wipe your chances of acquiring your own herbs. That is another huge difference between forests here and there... complain of an overpowerful Serenwilde the day that forest defences become active.

Also, aside from rogues, every other refiller were controlled by a group and were ruled by central leaderships. In fact, it was these central rulerships that where the once that regulated herb/alchemy prices after all, and created the bans in the first place.

In here, Lusternia is a completely story. Right now, Serenwilde is the only forestal community but it won't remain this way. But right now, sure Serenwilde has the great advantage of having alchemy as exclusive to them. So this gives Serenwilde to use alchemy as an advantage, political and economical. Of course, a big difference from here is that you can't have rogue refillers, but there are always renegade guildmembers that will in any case refill for someone that they aren't supposed to. This will all be fixed of course, the day a new commune is discovered... but no one can say whether those communes will be completely different than Serenwilde.

Serenwilde, in Elryn's theory, would become devoted to the light because it would have to to avoid getting pwned by Magnagora and Glomdoring together. (And let's face it, Magnagora wasn't doing a bad job on its OWN.)

I was using it as an example of a forest having the same philosophy as one of the two cities. That is, a 'what if' Serenwilde followed Light, just like Glomdoring will (hopefully not) follow Taint. I disagree with your forcing together of Life with Unlife.

Edit: And yes, what Shiri said. I got confused and thought you were talking about my example. Shiri: 1, Elryn: 0.