You were on the topic about needed vials for newbies. I guess you just didn't accept it.

All I have to say about Narsrim's past characters:

I love him.

But I hate Narsrim.

If he did the same thing on Aetolia as he is doing here, then all those people who did say it seems like we just killed for fun and experience were right.

Because there is proof that newbies DO need vials, ALL vials...novices and newbies die to random attacks of other newbies, they die to afflicting mobiles, they die to not being able to pay for Bob's vials...if a newbie dies cause he can't acquire alchemy, that is proof he needs alchemy...can you prove that this statement is wrong? Why should I accept a lie, if I have the solid proof of the truth?

If someone proves me wrong, I WILL accept defeat.

Now I'm quite curious... does an eye sigil in the room stop you from being able to ghost or lich? If not, I'd be interested to know why.

This downgrade would be fine as long as they take out the arena deffing too I believe, for _everyone_.

Eye sigils do exactly one thing: They prevent a soul from entering the room in which the eye sigil is on the ground.

They do nothing more, and nothing less. You can use them to block in souls so that enemies can't run too far and lich, but that's it.

But wouldn't it make sense that an eye sigil on the ground would stop you from becoming a soul? Maybe not a ghost, since I think that is considered different from a soul, but Lich certainly makes you into a soul.

It would arguably make sense, but that's not enough of a reason to downgrade it. I shouldn't be able to handle two flails, 30 vials and 3 lit pipes at once either.

It doesn't. What would happen if you died in a room with an eye sigil? You wouldn't die since you couldn't be a soul?

Um, weren't the multitude of threads calling for spores to be downgraded because they let someone escape combat? Lich does more than that, in fact I believe one of the divine posted about how lich/hermit was a far better combination than vitae/spores already, and yet spores will still be effectively downgraded. It seems to me this is in line with the original purpose of eye sigils, much like monoliths and teleport magic.

You could die, but it would stop you from moving anywhere, and stop you from reforming.

When someone whines about spores, it is justified. When someone mentions something about necromancy, knockdown, hang-trueheal-soulless, ur'guard's bashing, etc... it is instead "bitching and being childish." (or so sayth Bricriu)

EDIT: I'm wrong. No one called hang-trueheal-soulless bitching or childish because it doesn't concern Bricriu and her clique.

Spores was much better than lichdom/ghost for a number of reasons. Narsrim or Tuek could easily escape 8 plus people while inside of Angkrag. If someone with necromancy tried that, they'd lich and be unable to get out because of eye sigils, or ghost and be unable to get out because of (gasp) a closed door and possibly die to kether.

Are all the highest rated people ur'guard? I don't think they are. It's a very strange thing to suddenly start complaining about.

I'm not sure what classes are what, but maybe you could point out how many of these have access to lich or ghost?

Edit: Look, to be honest, I don't want to see Lich downgraded, I like to think we can each have 'overpowered' skills... that's what makes us each unique and challenging. I just wanted to point out that if you want to argue spores should be stopped by monoliths - then what is different in arguing that lich should be stopped by eye sigils? Nothing, just the side the debate is weighted against.

When ghosted, if you fall out of a tree you break legs

If you get chilled and lose eq you can't concentrate

If you are bleeding you still bleed.

If you have putrefaction up it still hits you (unless thats been changed)

If you have any other sort of affliction you can't cure it, and if that affliction makes you prone, makes you lose eq or does anything that requires some sort of action, you are stuck in ghost till your willpower drains, and you die and perhaps lich, perhaps vitae, or perhaps pray.

Due to those disadvantages, ghost is fine as is. And lichdom, well the being undeffed bit sucks, you either have to teleport nexus, or find a group of friendlies and defup again, not to mention wait to put lich back up.

Lich giving you back WP? When you can get stuck in ghost, well its fine as it. I heartstopped the other day in battle because i was basically stuffed, I had to pray too.

What the difference between liching to get WP back, or just heartstopping at the megalith or in enemy terriroty you just conglutinate?

Quit whining about our WP, because you can do the same thing with conglutinate.

PS: When you die to vitae, you go to ethereal to def up which I believe costs you a hell of a lot less power to do. Just wanted to point this out somewhere since Nars or Tuek say that you have to get your entourage back again, costing up to 45% reserves....not on ethereal buddy (I don't think so anyway)

Actually, fae cost the same wherever. There is currently no advantage for a Moondancer being on Ethereal whatsoever, other than normal forest stuff.

Well, you thought wrong. The only advantage on Ethereal would be for Hartstone and in that case, it just makes it cheaper to summon a Stag or Cudgel. That's it. Nothing to do with Moondancers. This is the same for Aquamancers on Water and Geomancers on Earth...

You know, I'm starting to think that people believe Moondancers are over powered because they have no idea what the class can and cannot do. I recall Valek trying to tell me that I could Rage and moonburst globally anytime...

That's what innocence is for, though. So they don't need all those vials. They CANNOT be attacked unless they reject innocence, as far as I understand the rules (it's like grace? Isn't it?) so unless they DELIBERATELY reject it, which they won't do unless they have the vials, then they don't need them.

Shiri..

Go bash without vials.

Then come back and say that again.

I'm not a newbie. And I didn't say vials, I said the vials Bob doesn't sell. (And I don't even know WHAT Rowena sells.)

...quite apart from the fact I bash pretty well without vials on account of nymph, waxing, sprite, and mother, but I suppose you didn't know that, and weren't taking it into account as part of your argument.