I spared me most posts here as most had nothing really to say. It is surely true that warriors bash a lot better in the long run and maybe the ur'guard have an advantage...so? I remember how wardancers and bards have a huge advantage with bashing in Imperian, especially compared to the poor Noctusari but in the end it works out. A Serenguard might not bash exactly as well as an ur'guard but in the end it just depends on your determination anyway. I think a dracnari Serenguard with surge that has reached level 60 or something just rocks.

Not that it really matters, but obesefessors and goats hit about the same only goats knock you off balance. They both have an attack that goes through putre and does around 7 or 800 while their other attacks do like 1-300.

The Ur'Guard have a massive advantage when it comes to bashing, one I really wish I had since it's maddening to see how easy they have it. However, like Drago (I think) pointed out, what is there to do to fix it? If you downgrade any one of their skills some other class that's already rather lame at bashing compared to the warrior class will suffer.

I disagree. In other IRE games, there were classes that shared the same skillsets with 1 or 2 differences... so Ur'guard could lose putrefaction for say another skill and still maintain the rest of necromancy.

I think the skillsets should stay the same, though. I -like- the symmetry between Nihilist & Ur'Guard necromancy. I got really annoyed by the Viridian/Cataclysm thing that was so different. (Or, it wasn't cataclysm, I forget the name now though, cataclysm was crystallism. You know what I mean.)

Meh. That's a silly reason in my book.

Under this same reasoning, there should -never- be a reason to fix an imbalance because "it just is that way.'

Narsrim, stop complaining and just enjoy your newfound Dwarven tankiness. It is preposterous for a warrior guild as the Ur'Guard to be tweaked simply because they bash better than you.


Here is a small list on combinations that may be top at bashinga:
1)Warriors
-Ur'Guard (Orclach, Tae'dae, Igasho, Viscanti, other bulky races) with full-plate, putrefaction, etc.
-Serenguard (Igasho, Tae'dae, Loboshigaru, other bulky races) with full-plate, Stagform, etc.
-Palandins (Tae'dae, Igasho, other bulky races) with whatever Paladins got

Bellow these warriors is the rest. It may seem unfair how powerful and tanky are warriors but that is because warriors are lame at magic, are slow, can't attack from afar. So in substitute of all this is why in general a warrior may be better at bashing. The Ur'Guard may easily overrun other knights because Putre is too much protection, true... but instead of asking for it to be eliminated, something of more sense would be to have Putre like it was before: protection only against cutting.

Still, who cares what other skills some people may acquire that makes them better than others at bashing? Hey, you are ranked 13 so I really don't know why you complain... anyone can bash good, to some classes in general the process may be harder.

If you really dislike the Ur'Guard being tougher than you... then become a Serenguard, or become an Ur'Guard. Though, something I will like to state is that just as sick as seeing you complain about the Ur'Guard, is seeing others constantly complain about the Moondancers at all times regarding even the most miniscule of their aspects... It has reached the point of absurdity. I guess people have yet to learn that things aren't meant to be "balanced" from one element to the next, the overall product is the one I think is very much "balanced". *shrug*

Uhm, please forget stagform. It is not worth the power. The additional health regeneration is surely not bad but you don't really notice the difference.
I don't think that everyone needs to be as good in bashing as everyone else, guild-skill-wise I mean. There is already a great balance here and that is very nice. Believe me, once you reach level 85 or around there it won't matter much anymore who has some advantage and who not. You advance so slow then that it will just depend on your determintation to continue. A Serenguard will bash as easily as an ur'guard at that point or at least you won't notice any real difference.

Replace Ur'Guard with Moondancers, Nihilists/Geomancers with every non-serenwilder and bashing/combat with escaping death lightly.

Cry me a river. If you seriously think constant bitching about a skill will get it downgraded, I'm fairly sure that you're suffering a mild case of stupidity.

What useful skill would you give the ur'guard in place of putrefaction? How would you balance this skill so it doesn't result in more bitching from people on your side.

And just as a note, for paladins, numen costs 4 power, correct? How long does that last for? I can see a paladin being an even better tank then an ur'guard with that on Astral, simply because they can be constantly linking astral nodes to get the power back, thus constantly summoning more creatures to kill.

Back to my original point.. bitching doesn't solve anything and, thus far, all your "arguments" have just been "cleverly" disguised rants.

Numen lasts 60 seconds and costs 5p, I believe.

Serenguard are on average much better at influencing. If you don't mind the monotony complimenting guards is free experience. When Jel was an elfen he was making a level per hour in the early 50's before I got bored of it. So what if ur'Guard bashing slightly better than Serenguard? They're worse in other areas.

EDIT: I should point out that this level per hour was completely automated with no risk of death.

Serenguard can influence well, yes. However, they do not influence far beyond the abilities of other classes like Moondancers, etc. However, Ur'guard bash EXCESSIVELY better than any other class because of their superior tank defenses + high damage.

Repeating an argument over and over again wont make anyone listen to it more.

Much as I wish that were true, Drago... it just doesn't seem to be.

It's why you make a poll and attach the thread link to your signature.

*sigh* i wish poor orclach were an option, sure we got the tanky with a higher hp , and good str, but surge is more then useless, runnin around with barely over 1k mana sucks *smirk* specially when got regen runnin , and all its done is add a whole 1k to yer max hp
*heh* help the poor , seein how its supposed to be the "ur'guard race" as such, its sad to see less then a half dozen around

2005/02/12 09:24:24 - Narsrim slew a plague lord that was loyal to you.
2005/02/12 09:25:05 - Narsrim slew a plague lord that was loyal to you.
2005/02/12 09:52:21 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 09:53:02 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 09:53:38 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 09:54:21 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
Type MORE to continue reading. (70% shown)
2845h, 3784m, 10p ex-
You channel energy from your link with the Megalith of Doom.
A small crack appears in the Megalith of Doom as it is drained in power.
2845h, 3784m, 10p ex-
Destin sits down.
2845h, 3784m, 10p ex-
2005/02/12 10:27:11 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 10:27:41 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 10:28:00 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:05:57 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:06:10 - Tuek slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:23:47 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:24:02 - Tuek slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:24:17 - Tuek slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:24:40 - Tuek slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:24:59 - Tuek slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:25:19 - Tuek slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:50:33 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:51:08 - Tuek slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:51:46 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:52:40 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:53:16 - Tuek slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:53:35 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:53:49 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:54:03 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:54:17 - Tuek slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
Type MORE to continue reading. (96% shown)
2845h, 3784m, 10p ex-
2005/02/12 11:54:36 - Tuek slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:54:44 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.
2005/02/12 11:54:59 - Narsrim slew an Ur'Guard Grand Marshal that was loyal to
you.

Note the miniscule timeframe between them, they were all large groups of guards, none of us Magnagorans or Celestians are as tanky as Tuek and Narsrim,

you have the best magical resistance of all the archetypes,
you have the second-best magical assault of all the archetypes,
you have the second-best physical damage resistance of all the archetypes,
you have the highest regenerating ability of all the archetypes,

none of us can solo Rowena and the Wyrm that easily, or any other mob at that, if you really keep insisting moondancers are underpowered in any way, be it offensively or defensively, you two are truly first-class retards.

Here here!! Someone buy that man a beer!

Could you explain that a little, Thorgal? I agree that Moondancers are fairly good with regeneration, especially mana, but how did you calculate the others? We have exactly one magical resistance defence that I can think of. No other guild has any magical resistance at all?

Looking at the time frames, there was some noticeable gaps. The first two guards were obviously a group of 2. Easy for anyone. The next was a group of four guards for one person, again easy. Then you have another three by Narsrim. Again, I'm going by the time stamps pasted on them, so so far there was a group of 2, then a group of four, then a group of three. How is that a ton of guards?

Then I show up, we first off kill a group of 2.
Then 30 minutes later or so, we kill 2 more.

Then the actual large amount of guards comes 15 minutes later. It was 6 between two people. Easy.

Another 25 minutes go by, and we kill 10 guards. 10 guards between 2 people is easy. He was a level 80 dwarf, so he'd just attack first, thusly taking all the hits, I was a Mugwump so with the high intelligence and speed, I'd get most of the actual kills in quickly. He'd flee when necessary, and I'd follow, then we'd repeat.