Questing loses any semblance of fun when it becomes something you must do, I thought the divine had acknowledged this.

I would rather see a massive downgrade to teleport, summon, lichdom, ghost and spores than a system like this, some kind of system where the avenger doesn't protect you, losing more experience based on your pkills to pdeath ratio... a million things that don't require me to become a slave to some quests.

Yet another problem is, people who raid a village never stay in the village if they can possibly avoid it, and that will be even more true now. There is even less reason to stick around when you raid a village as opposed to running in, killing one thing and running out.

You made a valid point, so I revisted that bug and discovered the problem which was missed last time. It is repaired now.

As I'm a bit sleepy for bashing spectre's, I'll take your word on it. Thank you.

It is great to see that a quest that was broken was fixed, but I would expect it to be fixed regardless of Karma.

Speaking of which. How about that Karma? What sort of fixes can we expect with it?

As it stands from what I have been seeing in game, which has a much broader reaching voice than the forums, based on Estarra's own words regarding polls and the forums, most of the people in game hate the Karma system too.

"Just to point out, while these polls are interesting, they do not necessarily reflect true statistics of the playerbase. Note that very few players are actually a part of these forums and the number of respondents on these polls is a fraction of the forum members. So what you are polling are players who happen to choose to use these forums who like responding to polls." - Estarra

Heck I started a poll in the Serenwilde on the Curses and with the exception of about 4 people everyone on CT was all for banning the use of them. Now we will see in 3 days what the overall outcome is, perhaps I am wrong and all of this is my imagination and everyone really will think the Karma system is great. I however will not, and still maintain that you have killed any form of fun in questing, and for questors. Not to mention the fact you made Protectors have no function anymore. Hope those Champions start sticking around 24/7 now.

Tell you what. Lets wait a month and see how the system works before rushing to judgment and taking spurious polls and referendums.

A month?

I dunno bout everyone else but a month of worrying about being cursed constantly and forced questing is too much for me. I dislike questing when its forced upon me, so do many others.

The reason we're making so much noise so soon is that no matter how it changes, no one wants to be forced to do anything repetative. PvP is interesting in part because it's not repetative, now in Lusternia it will be... and thus no fun.

Ok, see Lusternia in a month.



There's no ambiguity about the suckage of the system. The design blows chunks. I realize you put a lot of work into it, but the design sucks.

It is -PURE- metagaming. There is NO possibility of saving a metagaming system. NONE AT ALL.

I don't see how it's pure metagaming. No more than the current Avenger system, really - this just gives you a (less lethal) way of retaliating to someone who kills you. The -first- time they kill you, instead of being screwed, because they have PK Careful on, and you're 10% of their might.

I like the whole concept - I think perhaps, Karma lost for killing shouldn't be based on the number of people on your PK list, but on the relative level, might, and combat ranking of you and the person you kill....murdering novices (Or people barely out of novicehood, rather), I'm going to lose an -assload- of Karma. People around my powre and level, I'll be losing a moderate amount, and for people notably more powerful than me, not very much at all.

That said, there are a few things that could be done with it. Group kills, for example, might be worth more karma loss. If I kill Ethelon with Daevos, Murphy, Bricriu, and half the city at my back, I'm going to lose an assload of Karma. And vice versa.

However, it is -Karma-. Karma should reflect your deeds, be they good or bad. So, while murdering random folks on the street may lower my Karma....if I kill a city enemy in my city, I should actually gain Karma. After all, that's a -good- thing, that I'm stopping a murderer.

Similarly, that Karmic reversal should last for say, five or ten minutes after you leave the village (Assuming you attack something in there). If I were to run into Estelbar, for example, and kill a furrikin, then Narsrim would not only be free to hunt me down, he'd actually get Karma for doing so. Note, this thoery would also mean you aren't protected by Avechna, either, for that time period - if you start , why should he help you out?

On a further note, if someone attacks you, and loses, they should not only not get suspect on you, you should gain Karma.

This would do several things - first, it would mean that people who have a legitimate reason to PK aren't going to get shafted, -and- it would reduce the reliance on quests.

Doing a quest for the first time is fun and challenging, but having the need to do it repeatedly is off-putting.

Karma needs to go.

Bashing is tedious and boring, we should get rid of that too, then.

What a great plan...we can all get experience and everything else, just by sitting around with our thumbs up our ass! Yay!

A conversation just happening ingame that made me realize that it would be REALLY REALLY usefull if one of the possible curses was stoping someone from talking.

Or if perhaps there was a way for a council vote of all members to give someone mute for a while, or revoke thier CT privledges.

I think it would really help with a method to get back at people.

Bashing has a lot more variables in it than most quests, and more than one person can do it at a time.

If you want a happy lovely world where all you have to do is roleplay and never have violence, go find a mush. There are plenty out there.

If you want a world where PK is the -designed- game system, come to IRE.

If IRE wishes to stop PK then stop designing everything you do around PK.

Right now you have done two things and everyone is either sidestepping these points because they don't want to admit the validity of them, or they are just to blind to see them.

1) Protectors are useless. Protectors are now in the business of telling the people they used to protect. "die, you can curse them"

2) People who quested for levels. Doing this based on RP choices, or racial choices are screwed out of their quests. It was a hard time for some to quest when there were few people doing quests. Now you have 3 times as many people fighting for the same amount of quests. It is like 3 kids fighting for the last candy bar in a store. Only one of them is going to get it.

Getting Karma is not hard, nobody is arguing that. The flaw is not in getting Karma, the flaw is in the ways that system can be heavily abused, and has screwed over a whole group of people because apparently the IRE mindset is that nobody ever quests, then they make a world which is rich in questing and keeping the old mentality they forget that they have just told the questers tough luck, you can compete with all the bashers now.

While bashers can quest, the reverse however is not true. Perhaps you should make a system for questors where they can kill things in 1 hit and get experience that way, while the fighters are whoring all their quests.

I honestly think most of you are whining over nothing.

One thing I have learned from being in Magnagora, is that evertime something looks like it has totatlly screwed you over and there is no way around it, in less than 7 days, everybody has found a way around it, and its infact better than you had thought.

Thorgal has mentioned this point about class balance many times.

Wish I could find something to do in the realms, but I can't, if I log on, I just idle for hours.

I loathe bashing for hours and hours without a point to it.

Can't quest, cause every single quest in the realms is whored without end by others due to karma.

Can't raid, cause if I fight back, I get cursed, if I don't fight back, I die and lose 140% exp because it's in enemy territory.

Can't ambush people, cause I'd get cursed.

Can't defend, cause no one is attacking due to curses.

Can't fight in the arena, cause everytime I check, I'm the only one on sparwho, and there's barely any FFA's going on at all.

I liked Lusternia a lot more than Achaea, but I need something to fill my time with, just sitting at my nexus and idling for hours doesn't cut it. Maybe I'll come have a peek once in a while.

Just because we adapt doesnt mean we still dont like the change.

Thats true, but without having the time to adapt its hard to know if the change is actually bad or not.

Its like when kids complain about highschool, and then adults complain that they wish they were back in highschool.

Combat ranking maybe...level and might can be deceptive - a lot of my might is made up of credits used on enchantment, for example - and levels don't mean you can fight.