Rofl.

Yeah, howabout we get PK Flags, so the PK whores can kill each other mercilessly, and the rest of us 'casual PKers' don't have to deal with it 24/7? .

Voluntarily, I'm in one fight... oh... a month. At my peak, I instigated a fight a week.

If I leave my city, I immediately get 3-5 teleport attempts, and have to defend against idiotic Narsrim 'raids' (run into Angkrag, spore out!) repeatedly. I don't see what the fun is to you people, at all. The PK is -not- RP based. It's pure metagaming.

I really don't understand this concept that something must be suffered through before we can make an actual judgement on whether we like it or not. Most of us aren't idiots. It's relatively easy for me to extrapolate a variety of scenarios that will take place when curses begin to become a regular occurance, and I don't like any of them. As was said before, I don't need to survive a nuclear winter to say that I don't like 'em.

It also upsets me to see such broad disregard for a negative response to this system's proposal in the first place. I understand that forum polls and the like are designed purely to gauge player response, rather than to gain any sort of consensus, but...It was practically 50/50. That means you're pissing off 50 percent of the people who are on this forum, and there are a lot of important players on this forum. I understand that the forums are not representative of the realm's population. But I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the forums ARE representative of the realm's -leadership-. By implementing the Karma system out of the blue as you did, you basically told 50% of the realm's leaders to go cry a river and deal. Well...this isn't like the real world where a majority rule just means we have to live with it until we're in the majority again. We can just leave Lusternia. And I hardly think a mass exodus of city leaders, GM's, Guild Champions, clan leaders, etc. would be good for the realm's future development and viability on that TMS list up there.

Ultimately I do not think this is going to end up being a problem for me. Gregori and Daevos and I are close enough to coming to an agreement that I feel we can circumvent the Administration's intent with the Karma system to such a degree as to force changes, but I hate the fact that we have to do that in the first place. It's silly, but I don't have a viable alternative outside of pointing out all of the flaws that were somehow overlooked or downplayed during the design and implementation stage and hoping that this thing is removed before we all start actually feeling the brunt force of its stupidity.

Have you even looked at the Karma Blessings?
Do you know they exist?
Are you aware how easy it is to get them?

I was fine without them.
I don't particularly care to get them now.
I hate the fact that because I don't care to, I'm going to be at a disadvantage to others simply because I'm not big on quests and, oh yeah, I have a city to run.

I'm going to change the context of what you just said to be the context of Credits, or "A System", or "fighting skills" or ,"A desire to constantly be fighting other players."

Its called The other side of the coin learn to appreciate it.

I'm not exactly a huge PKer in Lusternia. I have three aliases and one trigger. Not exactly hardcore. Do I involve myself in it? Sure, where necessary to protect Celest and its interests. But the major reason I spend time in Lusternia is for RP and the work I do as Prince of Celest.

I am -on- the other side of the coin.

I -still- hate it.

Anyone who is a political leader, or a leader of any sort in the game is -not- on the other side of the coin. If you think you are, you are missing the point.

I was one of the loudest voices for something being done about PK, and even I agree this system has too many flaws. However, I would just like to point out to all the idiots who walk around killing for fun and causing polls like "Do you want PK curbed" to pass...you dug the hole now dig yourself out. I have always agreed if you pay 100 dollars plus so you can PK, then you should be able to PK. If you pay 100 dollars to harvest and not be interesting in combat, great, do so. It is the absolute morons of the IRE realms that came flocking here that have slowly killed the realm in every facet for everyone else. There were simple ways over time that adjustments to Avenger could be made, but that ended when people were getting killed for walking down the highway.

Do I like karma? not really

Can I deal with Karma? yes

One question though, to the banning of curses by the cities. Isn't that not really enforceable? I mean, lets say in Achaea all the cities ban issuing, and Person A issues someone. They get tossed. If Person A issues himself with that, don't you think they will let Person A rejoin the city and chastise the leadership? The system is in place for prevention (or help I guess?) as Roark pointed out, "The deaths to people walking down to highway to someone they have never met before". Possibly change it up so you strongly discourage it, but I think if someone issues for being tossed out a city/commune for using a system they are divinely allowed to use...they have a valid argument. Just my thoughts on that.

How so, Daganev? He's on the other side of the PK coin. He doesn't do the random PK. He has the alias and triggers, as he says. Just because he's not on the other side of the involvement coin, so to speak, doesn't mean that as far as PK goes he's on the other side of people like Narsrim who fight and kill a lot.

The problem is that there are people who consider themselves 'casual pkers'. They just want to pk whenever they feel like it and be safe from being pked when they dont. They attacked or jumped someone the day before and the next day they get jumped back and they whine about non-rp pk.

I can imagine why there are people who like the Karma system, so they can kill someone once in a while when they feel like it.

Cities have always had free reign over who they allow in their city and why. Though I imagine it will be more a fine with powerblocking than being thrown out of the city for an offense.

If I was a little prick and up and started randomly PKing people on the highway, here is how I would do it.

Save up to 100 karma. Should take me an hour or so.

Go kill whoever I want to kill.

They curse me.

I uncurse myself.

I kill them again, because hey, they just lost Suspect on me, and I didn't feel a thing!

They bitch, I laugh, and we repeat this scenario for a while until the person I am killing leaves Lusternia.


<3 Karma!!!!1111

The problem is not, and never has been, an issue of people who are heavily RP involved and part of large Basin wide conflict issues caring about being killed here or there.

Its about random people killing other random people.
Its about people fighting to the point where the RP makes no sense and nobdy wants to do it save 1 or 2 people.

Its about the Kalags of the world killing the Yoontas, and allowing for all the quests that were made to help direct city affairs actually having a use. (atleast thats what I've gotten out of this)

SLOW DOWN! I CAN'T READ THIS FAST!

-goes back to page 11-

EDIT: on the point, every time I turn a page, another 2 pops up.

Okay, here is a PERFECT EXAMPLE.

Jadryga and Alger were just now in the Inner Sea, and killed Lanikai. Obviously, I'm not going to stand for that, so Wuylinfe and I get together and go find and kill them. I get the killing blow in Jadryga, and she gets suspect on me. Now, in six days, she can hit me with any one of a variety of nasty curses BECAUSE OF A KILLING THAT WAS VALID IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Oh, and to make it even worse, I lose karma for killing her too. Great!

Better start saving up Karma then.

That fun, fun quest-grinding.

Seriously, I thought this was 99% of the cause for burnout; constant questing.

See, even if you never ever get cursed, you still have to whore quests for blessings to even stand a chance against blessed-up people.

Whatever the situation, you have no choice but quest every free minute you have, if you want to achieve anything but idling at your nexus.

Blessings are worse than curses for this game, they throw everything completely out of balance.

Anyway, farewell and have fun, I'm off for good.

Egads! This karma thing is really messing up my life. Usually I spend quite a lot of time in the realm questing for gold, but now... THERE ARE NO MORE QUESTS!!!!!!!!!! Throughout the whole Basin, I could not find a single quest that was not being done already. Well, actually I found a pair of chickens, but still... Either make a lot more quests, or do something else to fix the problem, because My life is Ruined!!!

Well just went to stewarts and no one had done the murder quest.