I'm a tae'dae with level 3 exp loss.
Its not hard to lose 2 levels on one death for a taedae.

Stop leaping to conclusions.

Heh. I think it will be amusing when the same people who bring the skeletons to Brennan turn around and kill them because they want more Karma. Simply put if someone completes then botches a quest to readily do the quest again for the sake of gaining Karma, it becomes idle, unfounded, NON-IC questing.

As for killing goats, I view bashing as a means of gaining strength by placing myself in a trial by fire against all odds. The weak die, the strong survive and in doing so learn and become more resilient.

As I understand it, the level 3 experience penalty makes obtaining exp harder. It in no way increases exp lost at death. Nice try.

4.14.15 The Tae'dae Race
Descended from the Elder God Tae, the tae'dae are bear-like humanoids.
They are an extremely large people, though their size is more in their
breadth rather than their height, which likewise makes them as slow as
they are powerful. Indeed, they are the innately strongest of all the
mortal races. They seem to have no natural affinity to any specific
environment, being found in arctic regions (the white furred tae'dae,
often with blue tongues) to more temperate zones (brown or black fur) to
some jungle regions (where their fur is curiously patterned in black and
white). They are extremely affable, proud and charismatic, and most have
an inborn desire to protect the furrikin, who are often inexplicably
referred to as their "little brothers and little sisters" (and it is true
some furrikin look like miniature tae'dae). Though notoriously known for
being of small intellect, the typical tae'dae believes just the opposite,
considering him or herself to be uncommonly wise.

STATISTICS:
Strength : 17 Dexterity : 8 Constitution: 16
Intelligence: 9 Charisma : 15 Size : 15

ADVANTAGES:
o Have racial language, tae'dae.
o Does damage when performing a BEARHUG upon reaching level 50.
o Have a level 3 resistance to cutting damage.
o Have a level 3 resistance to blunt damage.
o Have a level 3 resistance to cold damage.
o Heal faster from elixirs, level 3.

DISADVANTAGES:
o Have level 3 slower balance.
o Have level 3 slower equilibrium.
o Are susceptible to magic, level 3.
o Gain experience more slowly, level 3.

Exp penalty is what you lose while bashing(your gain), and furthermore you said "when I came back". Hence the logical conclusion was AFK. Again. Read HELP AFK

Further Gregori, by focusing on that one part of one line of my post, you miss the point I was making. The point was that my own personaly experiences in game on my charachter should not, and does not affect what I think is a good or bad idea for lusternia as a whole. I as a player never know if one day, the team I chear for now will be the team I try to kill later.

How is this trial of fire with goats, any different than my trial of speachcraft and diplomacy with the skeletons? As practice for the day I will need to convene a true council, I practice gathering various people to follow me to a specific location.

The difference is that the basher is continually killing goats to advance. The questor, however, is taking skeletons to Brennan/killing skeletons only to repeat which has been going on since I stopped killing them.

EDIT:

To break it down further, the basher is working towards an ongoing, focused goal

The questor is questing for Crow against Crow for Crow against Crow... only for Karma... unless they are trying to IC-multiple personality disorder... this makes no sense.

In a post by roark regarding humans, he stated that one advantage of humans that most people overlook is the fact that they lose less exp when they die.

Us ta'edae always complain when we die and waste a few moments praying. It may be due to our low mana, or our exp penalty, I don't know, but I do know I often lost 2 levels when I died and had to pray.

Comming back is the normal term for being done praying and finding yourself in the portal of fates. Not sure when this discussion became a legal argument about help AFK. The fact still remains that you were circumventing my point.

Kill monster repeat, kill monster repeat. I don't see the difference, sorry.

One does not do a quest that is For crow, against crow. One does a question that is "for my goals."

Nobody seems to care when you write the histories of the spectres in thier book and then turn around and kill them. Or when you influence the gnome for his widget and then kill him anyway.

Doing the quest for karma is no different than doing the quest for gold or exp or killing mobs and "bashing" as everybody likes to call it.

No what you missed was my point. Most random PK can simply be stopped by not sitting idle in a place that you can be attacked, by taking responsibility for your actions. Past and present. If you pissed people off in the past, they will likely attack you in the present. Cause and affect.

Turning around and being that man who killed his wife, and then saying it is the fault of the police and the system, after the fact is tantamount to saying "I do not have to accept responsibility for the crimes I have commited"

I have fully agreed that there are a few idiots out there that randomly pk because they can. You know what, the ones that do that can be dealt with. If you have never been attacked or been involved in PK you are quite obviously a non-combatant. If someone jumps you and kills you, guess what. They are on your suspect list for 30 rl days. If you do not involve yourself in PK and are a noncombatant they will remain there. If they remain there they cannot touch you for 30 RL days. If they -do- touch you, guess what. You have vengeance.

Karma does nothing for anybody to help this in anyway by any means.

Good for you; however, that doesn't change the fact that the basher has an ongoing, consistent goal (to get stronger) which could feasibly be accomplished by hunting. Think of it like this:

The would-be adventurer must first locate where moster (steel goat) dwells. He or she must learn the tactics of the goat, learn how the goats move around in packs (no one can fight 5 goats at once), etc. Whereas I would agree that most people don't IC this in explicit detail, it could feasibly happen.

On the other side of the coin, there is someone who completes a quest only to undo the result such that the person can again complete the EXACT same quest to gain Karma. Where is the motivation, etc. outside of gaining Karma? (again, we are assuming that multiple personality disorder is not a motivation in this scenario).

EDIT: Another way to look at it is like this...

If you bring a skeleton to Brennan and gain Karma for your "good" deed then shouldn't you lose karma for turning around and killing it because that would be a "bad" deed.

The excuse given to me by the person who jumped me was "don't sleep on my island."

When I said random.. I ment random.
I'm far well aware of the difference between random, and delayed responces.

As for the skeletons. The adventurer needs to find out the request of the old lady, find the methods in which to bring a skeleton to her, and once that is done, they recieve thier reward, and feel that skeletons are things that are ment to stay dead, and so they practice thier battle technique just after practicing their diplomatic technique. Why? so that they can once again go to the lady and gain her favour and have the experience of watching a council meeting.

Uhm... even though I haven't done the quest that doesn't seem to make sense.

You can't quest in Stewartsville if you're enemied to Stewartsville. I'm going to assume it's the same for Glomdoring.

Your posts are so... bleh.

If you consider this good roleplay, you should be taken out and beaten with a rubber hose.

Last time I checked, the skeletons were not loyal to Glomdoring so if you were to kill them, you wouldn't be enemied. Furthermore, I've been told (although I have not practiced such) that you can still do the skeleton quest even if you are enemied to Glomdoring... and on a final note,

I recently completed the honours quest in Estelbar. I am enemied. There are ways around such

If I recall Estarra's quote of Richard Bartle correctly, the reason that people kill because they can is to cause distress to others. This is why moving PK off Prime was not considered as important as reducing PK completely.

The general consensus seems to be that thievery will cause far more distress to a player than the temporary death of his character.

There is probably a reason why stealing from novices will get you shrubbed but tuning a masochism statue that might hit novices does not bring the attention of the admins, nor does declaring that you will slay all novices of a certain organization.

If a pack with 200 gold is all that I have, and someone takes that from me, I am much more likely to leave than if I am killed and lose a level.

This applies to non-novices as well, on a broader scale (including shop theft, etc.).

By Daganev's theory of people do it to accomplish their goals. I should now turn around and raise Crow, then kill crow, rinse and repeat. As this is valid RP simply by maintaining the semblance of acheiving my goals. Those goals to add 5000 power to the Moonhart Nexus every full moon. Oh ya. I get Karma too!

They are less likely to steal becaue of the effort and other ramifications involved. (such as the shrubbing)

But yes, being stolen from does cause much more distress. There is a reason these concepts are generally written over a course of a book that is 100 or 200 pages long rather than in a simple post on a thread.

I'm pretty sure I know how you did this and it didn't involve giving Mrs. Trundle the toys, unless everything is buggy in that department too.



This also should be fixed. It makes -no- sense for you to be able to raise something that you're against (If it involves another NPC anyway).

If we're going to expect roleplay then maybe small bugs/overlooks like this should be adjusted.

Meh. Maybe I should start logging in again (I didn't stop for a Karma-related reason).

But! But... but! you raised Crow and then found out he was bad only to kill him and raise him again thinking he would be better this time around except he was bad again so... *end sarcasm*

Stealing from other players (with the exception of novices) is not a shrub-able offense to my knowledge. In fact, there is nothing anywhere that says that it is even "wrong"

The difference is that I dont have to bash goats when I dont want to. But it has become a necessity to quest over and over again just to accumulate Karma for blessings and curses. And doing the same bloody quest over and over and over again are much much worse than bashing, no matter how much I have enjoyed doing the quest the first time around. There are already people camping out in the villages and hoarding quest items
waiting for reset. Do we really want Lusternia to turn into this?

I would not complain so much if bashing gives Karma, although I still think a simple pk flag is a much simpler solution.