I haven't been on Lusternia in a while, and I came back, took one look at the helpfile, and disliked the idea instantly. What was wrong with the Avenger?

How long does a blessing last?

25 ingame hours.

Are you supposed to get karma for the chicken, trout, cow commodity quests?

I just took about 5 or 6 cows, about 6 chickens and 5 trout to delport and received no karma.

hmm bug?

I propose, instead of karma, shrubbing all those people who kill others for reasons such as:
- You're magnagorian/celestian/serenwilder
- I don't like your eyes
- You stepped on my highway
- If you had walked 200 more steps you would come near one of my city villages

A bit more divine control, and then, no need for Karma. This, or base it on who actually starts an attack and don't allow that person to get protected if killed.

Or perhaps people who choose to get involved in the game will accept the responsibility that there are consequences for (raising crow, raiding villages, etc)... no need for karma then either.

Yes but its like half the people have to accept there is consequence for them doing something, yet there should be no consequence whatsoever for killing someone. Consequence goes both ways.

I have tried to keep quiet about this untill now, but its just invading my brain too much, the god damn system isn't even fully in place yet, how the hell can you judge it. The only part that is in place is blessings which was noted to be too easy and changed within a day. Once it goes live, lets see what happens, the divine will make changes, contrary to popular belief you cannot theorise everything. In theory, theory is the same as practice, in practice they are nothing alike.

Hell from the opinions expressed in this forum, you should all quit playing MUDs and get high paying jobs as theoretician, because you are all always so right

You must have missed my posts about where people are switching over to stealing/torturing instead of killing because it circumvents Karma and I argue is worse than killing... all because it circumvents future karma-based backlash.

Because you know, obviusly if that does happen the gods will never implement something to deal with it, because they never make changes to Lusternia its just too static and lifeless

It already happened. Read the posts!

You totally love the sound of your own voice don't you. Ok it happened, just like excessive PK happened, something got done about it. When this becomes a problem, something will get done about it. You are not the almighty authority on all things they should come to pass in this game. You do not know what changes will come about, you do not know how things will be effected. If you made one structured logical argument saying Karma needs to be changed for these reasons here are my ideas, and each person posted once that would be perfectly acceptable, this complete BS is just a waste of time, and frankly insulting to the people that develop this MUD. Don't like it? Code your own and leave us in peace.

I'd just like to point out, the Avenger didn't take notice of stealing before karma was introduced. It was just as easy to lock someone who wasn't good at combat and steal from them as it is now.

Sorry for snapping, I just have had enough of this stupid argument. Lets see what happens and then take it form there rather than have theoretical arguments.

Actually, pooka-ing and demon-ing, that is forcing them to attack, is and was an aggressive action, so supect status prevented it.

It's kinda your fault if you curse and get rid of that tho.

I apologize that I along with Gregori, Daevos, Rhysus and half of the player base forsee problems that you do not. Perhaps we are exceptionally creative. Perhaps we have foresight. However, I do not think you can shrug off the fact that there are a lot of problems Karma that go beyond those curses going into effect.

1. There is also a rise in idle questing for the sake of gaining Karma with no regards to what such a quest entails IC. For example, people raising the Dark Council only to turn around and slay them so they will be available to raise again. Support Crow, hate Crow, support Crow, hate Crow... as I stated previously, this makes no sense unless you have multiple personality disorder.

2. Karma doesn't remove excessive PK. It simply forces PKers to quest frequently. If they quest frequently, they can kill as much as before with no worries.

3. Karma forces people who want to "inflict harm" to seek more creative methods (such as robbing, etc.). While a system may develop to handle this in time, I doubt the people who are losing their items give a damn.

4. People who used to depend upon questing as a source of income and experience are now being consumed in waves of Karma-crazy persons.

The list goes on-and-on. I don't need to be cursed to see problems. As for "suggestions," I suggest clicking on the link on Bricriu's signature. Suggestions have been supplied.

And might I add, if you don't like forums then buzz off. No one is forcing you to read what you entitled BS.

I'm sorry I forgot that because its you, Gregori, Rhysus and Daevos its immeadiately more important. I shall be suitably spanked and remember that because they won popularity contests their say means more than everyone elses.

I happen to agree that there are some issues with it, but lets see what those are rather than guess and then tweak it to deal with it.

You seem to totally miss the fact that no where does it say you HAVE to curse people. It is an ALTERNATIVE to Avenger for people who prefer to take more direct action. For example since I don't quest, I won't have the karma to curse any person who killed me, not to mention I wouldn't do it anyway. If someone cursed me, I would just do my bit to get rid of the curse and be done with it.

Previously the people who were harmed by excessive PK didnt give a damn that something might be done about it in the future, so its a bit of a none point.

I am sure you will find that with time more quests become available

I have just as much right to read the forums as you, 99% of the content is useful and interesting. 22 pages of argument, is not.

That's the thing you don't seem to understand... the cursing isn't really the worst part of Karma... the worst part is all the crap that people to do whore karma and circumvent the system even if it means tearing apart RP (several examples have been posted, I won't bother again).

If I recall correctly, when the idea of PK flags was discussed, people preferred to use some "detriment" to PK instead of "forbidding PK". I believe Karma is a great idea. People who like to PK will not use karmic curses, but rather fight back, and those who don't PK and wish to be left alone can always retaliate with a curse until people learn to live them alone.

People who PK for a brain-dead reason (*drool* just because you are Celestian *drool* *gape* *scratch*) will have to learn what a synapsis is to find a good IC reason to PK someone now that Karma is in. That's the good thing about it.

*highfive administration*

So the gods will look at some of the ideas like Gregori's of different ways of gaining Karma.

My main issue is actually not with people like you who are arguing against it, somewhat coherently, its mainly with the people who have turned round and claimed IRE are fraudulently ripping them off over a change they haven't even seen take effect. Its offensive to people who put a lot of time into what they do to make a place for people to enjoy.

What about people who kill 'because your name starts with M', or people who kill because... (tell never answered).

I would like to shrub those as well.