Or, more importantly, money on credits

S'what I meant.

Thanks Roark.

I've gotten about 10% karma in...five minutes. And now that I'm clear about how you can't curse someone killed in a village, I'm thinking this isn't so bad, because that's generally the only place I fight.

So while I won't be cursing anyone, maybe I'll get some blessings.

What Erion is saying Roark is this...

I attack, I take out two guards, I step 1-room outside the village... eat karma curses if you touch me *muahahaha*!

There has actually been steady feedback that there is still too much random killings. People don't mind IC killing too much, but the random killings are drag. Since most IC killings take place in villages then this has very minimal impact on that. As for questing, this is not the same quest over and over. Do several quests for variety. The monotony is in doing the same thing over and over, which is not what this causes. Or just don't do quests. The occassional curse probably is not going to be that big of a deal, especially since (and this is bolded because I think people are not noticing it) you get free karma every RL day to help compensate. The occassional curse may cause you to do a few quests to make up the difference you need from the freebie karma.

No, what I mean is, you attack, I run in and defend, you kill me. I now have suspect, and can curse you. I find raiding villages, especially the dwarf-towns, to be essential to the angkrag/rockholm/southgard conflicts, and very important to our miners.

I die a lot there, and you know what? I don't complain about it, because I chose to go defend.

You fight when you're told to fight. What about those of us who take the initiative and try to roleplay a warrior persona? I was proud of young Celestians forming teams to defend spectres in Old Celest... little things like that will be made awkward by this, what is effectively a vice on PK.

You get 1 karma per -RL DAY-

You get 1 karma per pilgrim

Do anyone see a problem here?

I think the imbalance narsrim points out is saying hermit is equal to spores.

Yeah, the free karma could be upped a bit...

Look, this isn't the time. Focus on Karma. We both hate, we have work together!

I also just want to say, though, thanks for being active in this thread, Roark. I see you're trying your damnedest to keep us informed, answer questions, read the feedback. I'm sure this took a shitload of effort on your guys' part, and to see us bitch/complain probably isn't that great for the self-esteem.

One more time, thank you.

This is an interesting concept. But I agree that it will be a shame if it turns Lusternia into conflict-free realm where nobody wants to fight or raid because they're afraid of getting cursed.

This system also seems to encourage people to get one of each blessing, then stay out of all conflict for fear of losing them to curses. Bashing is all well and good, but conflict adds an entire dimension to the game. Worse yet, stagnation due to lack of conflict is difficult to detect until it is far too late (see Achaea).

But we'll see how it goes.

I did have two questions:

1 ) If someone attacks you and you kill them in self defense, do you still lose karma?
Example - Annabelle attacks Richter for his gold and dies.

2 ) Why do you lose karma when killing off the Prime plane?
Wasn't one of the goals to move conflict off of Prime?

I really want someone to justify the Karma system based upon my glomdoring scenario... I cannot

- If you kill a Commune enemy defending a village the Commune posseses for under a year, you don't get suspect... no karma worries

- If you kill someone raising Crow (the antithesis of Serenwilde and White Hart) then you gain "bad" karma and get suspect... and karma curses

This invalidates any type of rationale for karma. You can defend a villager but not fight those who work with your greatest foe...

That's true. But I guess...do little mini quests inbetween fighting? As long as you keep a stockpile of at least 75% karma (which seems like a lot at first, but actually isn't -too- bad) and someone curses you...you can lift it. The sad thing is, while I know already that I won't be cursing anyone so long as they aren't abusing that fact (and killing me multiple times for no reason), there are definitely going to be a lot of people who just whore it, and that's why I don't like this too much.

I like the blessings. Anyone who isn't a random PKer will likely have enough karma around to negate a curse - random PKers are unlikely to.

e.g.

random PKer (with 100 karma - the max) jumps person 1
person 1 curses random PKer (removing them from suspect status)
random PKer uses 75 karma to remove the curse

random PKer gets bored, and decides to jump person 2
person 2 curses...and random PKer either needs to get karma, or let it build up until they can cure themself.

The other thing is that you don't have to curse people.

Think about it - person A and person B frequently end up killing each other during village raids.

If person A cursed person B, they would run the risk of having not enough karma to cure themself when person B cursed them....so would people fighting in those circumstances do it? (particularly as it sounds like more of a problem a few days after being cursed than immediately, so wouldn't help much with the raid....)

JMHO
Anon

But did Karma really solve anything except forcing underless hours of mindless questing that circumvent those poor newbies trying to get some gold?

But where is the RP enjoyment/justification in spending your time repeating utterly meaningless quests? It may reduce the 'un-enjoyment' of a very small amount of whiners, but it will also greatly reduce the ENjoyment of a lot of people who like being able to fight without always thinking of consequences (Achaea-style).

Take combat to the open villages. Or slay all the enemies in your city or your villages or planes. Then you have no problem. This is the direction we've always tried to steer things (except for villages, which we gave up trying to make peaceful and have now actually loosened up your options to PK - bolded since many people I think are overlooking this piece of the change).

I will add to this a reply on the question of raiding villages. If you defend your loyal villages from city enemies then this will have no impact since, as always, it does not count against you to slay people in enemy territory. For being on the offense in a village raid, as I said before I doubt the occassional curse will be a big deal. The problem with opening it up completely in loyal villages is that people who are there peacefully will be open to the random-slaughter-for-no-reason problem. Thus that is unfortunatly not an option. Raiding villages has always been risky due to avenger. This does not change that much beyond what it was.

That seems to be the trend:

I'd like to clarify random PK. If you invade an opposing village to save miners, are attacked by defender, and slay them to defend youself and escape with the corpses of undead dwarves so you can resurrected them... that's not random PK. And more or less, I'd speculate that 85% of this "random PK" is in fact legit PK that results from intereactions with villages (raiding, stealing stuff, kill undead dwarves, etc). And guess what, this is where karma is going to have its biggest role.