Well, Rhysus, you could always start a poll as to whether people are happy with the system as is in a couple days, since that poll was largely irrelevant given that the votes were placed not knowing how the system worked out.

Okay, before I systematically tear apart this concept, I like the concept.



Alright. Divine? You have developed a complex. You are obsessing about trying to curb PK. Alright, more PK is occuring on Prime then you originally wished. If you'd given the Warrior archetype easier transport, and highlighted the kind of damage you can do from the higher planes, that wouldn't have been as much of a problem.

Now what you've done is overreact. Big time. Curses and blessings are both overpowered. Step back and water this down a little.

Don't look at me that way! I reported that that certain quest was too easy!

I didn't say I'd quit. I said I'd consider a Vacation.

And oddly, once again I agree with Narsrim. Suppose some jerk decided to jump me when I'm on spectre, which takes forever, just so I can do the city power quest? They die, and curse me.

OH! Or, Suppose a certain princess is raised. Well, we're screwed! the second we have to go protect any number of denizens, so we can FIX the problem, we get cursed, as well. At least Serenwilde and Celest don't have to worry about some huge evil quest wiping out their ability to do their city power quest...and if they attempt to fix it, well, the only way to do so is OUTSIDE their territory, by protecting OUTSIDE denizens. There goes ever having fun again.

I'm sorry, but Karma sucks. I wish it was gone. Now. Die, Karma. Die.

Amen

The Karma system isn't all that bad overall. The part that is bad is that you now have 50 people logging on doing quests that before you had 5 - 10 people doing. Of those 5 - 10 people 50% of them were doing it from the fact it was the only effective way they could gain levels. Not all races are created equal and some of them cannot hunt for anything bigger than a weevil, hence questing and influencing.

You have effectively made it impossible for those types of people to do anything because everyone who needs Karma to stay safe is now out there doing all the quests, and 10 quests just don't spread out among 50 people evenly.

Curb the Karma now. Make it so that any given quest only gives Karma in a set period of time. I do the Delport honours and get x amount of Karma. Sure I have to wait for it to reset, but if I am lucky and can do it again, I get the same amount of Karma. Make things like that only give Karma once in x amount of months. So that people can't whore the quests and kill the experience for those who -need- to quest to level.

Seconded

If I get in a fight, and I win, it's gonna be even worse than your average "Damnit! I was lagging." "Bloody triggers looped." etc. It's just going to be *curse curse curse*

Blargh

Not that I win fights

What if some sort of state of pacifism was created. Where if you chose to be a pacifist you are unable to commit any offensive act on another player. You can still bash and what not. The skills that affect other players would be nulled. For example, I couldnt summon a pixie because it only works on other players, but I could still summon mother.

Pacifists could still be killed, but karma could be used as a way of doing something back.

I think the main problem before was that people were being killed for no reason what so ever, and had no means to recipricate(?).

Who wants to *win* now that they can take away $100+ to get rid of someone's trans skills? That's far worse than killing them

Having this as a sort of one-sided PK flag (they can't hurt you EXCEPT by curses, you can still hurt them but will get cursed) wouldn't be so bad, because there's still the Avenger, which works fine for people who like to PK a bit but not excessively.

Also, the money argument's a bit off, isn't it? I mean, you can just pay to have the curse removed, or block it ahead of time. It's not like it's permanent.

Just to generalize on what Narsrim has said - There seems to be a contradiction in the general makeup of the system.

It has been said repeatedly that areas created "just for bashing" are not wanted because they have no roleplay significance.

That's wonderful, and I totally agree.

But as soon as you give an area roleplay significiance, it generates conflict. Celestians want to protect the spectres of their ancestors. Magnagorans want to kill mobs in the Inner Sea to hurt Celest. On and on.

Nearly every single area has significance to somebody. That means that killing inside those areas, for those quests, can very well be RP-motivated. If nothing else, it is one way to stop quests from being done (e.g. raising Crow). Quest items drop on death.

Both the Avenger and now the karma system, while interesting in design, seem to work completely against all of the above. People get punished for killing for RP reasons.

If the areas were designed to create conflict, and systems are put in place to punish said conflict, then something just seems a bit wrong.

What I find the most rediculous is even though you cannot stack curses of the same kind, you can still get cursed multiple times. As someone mentioned before, what if you get jumped by a group of 4 or 5 people, you managed to evade them and pick them off (i.e. Narsrim), they all get suspect on you, they go and quest until they can and then curse with 5 different types. Situations like this seem extreme, but it doesn't seem too unreasonable, I'm sorry to say, but who is going to continue to play Lusternia if they are stuck with 5 curses that constantly drain their skills, health, and such?

In another scenario, what if you were attacked and killed by someone? You then curse the person, and what, they just do some quests and remove the curse, but since you lost suspect, they can kill you again. In this situation, what is the point of having the karma system? It seems totally useless.

This is reminding me more and more of rezz-killing in Achaea for mark members (those that are always open Pk and cannot gain grace). It has been shown to be abused many times over, and the admins have done nothing to try and curb the blatant harassments of rezz-killing. And once they actually managed to implement praying after being killed un-rezzable, guess what, the people will just sit and wait for the mark to finish praying, then continue on.

It has been said that if things aren't broke, don't fix them. The implementation of the karma system seems to purely just make questing more appealing to the non-Pkers but leave nothing for the active fighters except either force them all to quest over and over again to get rid of curses, or just stop fighting altogether.

We should just say fudge it all, take the company mantra on PK (It shouldn't be on the Prime, just the other planes!) and flip it upside down, and start applying all the rules that now affect PK on the Planes, and put it on the Prime, while having the Planes be the place where PK isn't supposed to happen as much. At least then the actual mantra and the game implementation would match up!

I hereby proclaim Karma to be the worst ANTI-RP invention of all time. Henceforth, we shall all be metagamers and if you don't like that, I'll karma curse you so that you lose all yours trans skills.

"Curses should occur only when the person has -vengence-."

This is an interesting idea.

In fact, there is no almost no benefit to creating a good system and buying combat artifacts... hehe, poor Ceres and her level 2 sceptre!

Genius is the word.

I knew I disliked you!

I know at least one person who doesn't bash, just quests, and now they're screwed over 'cos everyone who wants to pk will do the quests so it'll be far less feasible for them to.

Edit: Also - what about us who don't like questing so much? Like, I have an aversion to questing, and now I'm not going to have much karma. The most I do is the ones on ethereal, and the chicken quest in estelbar when I'm dropping off lumber/spinnerets/etc.

What he said. I mean, Im not an 'excessive pker' well, no, I am. I dont kill things without a justifiction, though, and most of the time, its in villages. But occasionally I'll find someone on the road, like Munsia or Athana, and take a swing at them, sometimes even suceeding. And I've done it to most of the people I have a chance at getting at one time or another. I have this nasty feeling that 7 days from now..
'You have been burdened with the curse of Life'
'You have been burdened with the curse of Death'
'You have been burdened with the curse of Knowledge'
'You have been burdened with the curse of Harmony'
'You have been burdened with the curse of Chaos'
'You have been burdened with the curse of War'
'You have been burdened with the curse of Justice'
'You have been burdened with the curse of Beauty'
'You have been burdened with the curse of Nature'

All at once. Then repeat every time I get rid of one. If they have the chance, anyway. Do us a favour: Take it out, kill it, dance on the corpse and whack in PK flags. Just remove them in certain places. Please. Or if we *must* have them, make it so you can only have one curse at a time, and cant be recursed for a few hours with ANY curse.