I think we all came to Lusternia for that sort of thing. Such detailed roleplay. Or, most of us. I had such high hopes as a Novice, advancing in political power, to the point where I could order all the three cities to lick my boots.. all of the citizens of all three cities. And now, I've turned into a petty and not-so-skilled thug. My fault, but it happens so slowly you dont even realise its happening.

Take out the Karma. Murder it. Dance on the body. Burn it.

Then, put in PK flags so Brylle can sit in peace. And Mel. And others of the sort. And Lyren.

I'm not an Avid PKer by ANY means, Brylle - and I still hate Karma. (Die, Karma. Die.)

The fact is, it's never going to be fixed to be perfect. As it stands, and IDIOT can come into say, Angkrag, kill a dwarf or two, then RUN out quick. If you try to head them off before they totally steal the miner, well, too bad! You kill them, you get CURSED! Yes, that is really good roleplay.

Or, suppose you are actually roleplay. Suppose you care about your city, and....you are Magnagoran. You happily spike away, but oh no! A Celestian jumps you! You manage to kill your attacker. But, what is that? They can now curse you for defending yourself! I suppose that is excellent roleplay, too. If you lose, well, who cares? You can be a bastard and choose from a variety of nasty curses, all it takes is a little time of leading pilgrims, or doing your own city power quest for karma.

Or, going even further - lets take Crow as an example. Narsrim dislikes it since anyone can try and raise an enemy to his commune, and he can get cursed for it. Magnagorans can feel the same if Celestians raise Marilynth, because you need to protect tons of denizes, OUTSIDE your city too. But....you do anything, and WHAM! Cursed!

This does not help RP in any sense. It hinders it. It takes away basic quests from newbies. It removes people who prefer to quest source of gold and experience. It takes away from people who prefer bashing. It ruins the normal RP-er, who wants to defend their villages or home.

Curses are just a way for people unwilling to WORK to get their revenge, or for others to be a bastard with when they lose.

Now petitioning for Rauros' avatar as a new smiley!

Can we change Karma so that it revolves solely around getting the blessings, and also REMOVING blessings, but no curses involved? Or maybe make the curses much much weaker.

I hate it for purely selfish reasons... I like doing quests. It's easy experience, easy money, and little risk of dying. I don't like to bash because I'm on dial-up and all it takes is a simple disconnection to kill me. Questing is safe, but now everyone is going to be taking the quests, leaving me with nothing left to do but sit and complain about it at the Pool. Die, Karma. Die!

I like that catchphase, and agree that karma should die quickly

If you like it, you could always join the 'Quote Bricriu' club.

Here is a scenario for you.

Daevos raids Estelbar. My demesne hits him and for once he doesn't manage to tank it and gets out while the getting is good. So he leaves the Demesne. I have Masochism runes though and before Daevos leaves he gets nailed with one.

Daevos has been slain by the might of Gregori Mes'ard.

So now Daevos got out of Estelbar, got killed because of my Masochism, and can curse me because he was not in Estelbar when he died.

Karmic Curses do nothing at all for the game, except quite literally mean. If someone attacks you stand there and let them kill you so you can curse them after. In fact you might as well tell protectors not to do their job if someone calls for help. The new way to protect someone will be to "CT just die, you can curse them afterwards"

I love karma and want marry it and have it bear my children.

Alright, I was a little pissed off a little while ago, and I let off some steam. I may have been a little rash with my words. Simply put, I don't really care for the random fighting too much, but it's just something you deal with. I'm sure it's not as constant as you say it is. I think the avenger system is just fine. I like the roleplaying and the history, but I didn't want it to hinder warfare. I'm most concerned about keeping things like raids (both defensive and offensive) intact. I liked this mud because it allowed you to fight in a group to defend your city, and take over villages, without suffering for being good at fighting.

As I said before, I do not believe this Karma system will stop or hinder random pk, as the people who do this will just adjust. And they'll adjust by doing the quests that the rest of us use for money and xp. And people who are not good fighters, will do these quests more often to gain enough karma to curse and get blessings, and people who are just tradesmen, will have to do them to get 100% karma for cursing and blessings.

I think this system will have far-reaching repurcussions. Perhaps there can be other anti-pk measures. For example, just sell innocence to people past level 20 for 2K gold or something. You can only buy this innocence if you are not on a suspect/avenger list.

WOOOOOOOOOT KARMA! Nyla you are out of luck, Karma and I have already pronounced our love for eachother.

Anyone think the Nature curse is unfair? I can't wait till all those in the Commune are whored with it. What did you say? I cannot enter my own forest or the Ethereal plane under fear of dying?

This is

In the part of my post preceding my quote, I made the point that the people who engage in the sort of PK I don't consider valid would never recognize it as such.

Sometimes the PK you engage in is excessive. It has a significant, negative impact on people's enjoyment of the realm. That's when PK is excessive. You also clearly have a difficult time even seeing that there is a difference, or maybe you do see and just don't care. I can't read your mind so I can't know. I can only comment on what I see and hear about.

I also carefully pointed out in my previous that there is killing that I do not consider excessive, and that I see as completely appropriate and part of roleplaying in the realm. Which brings me back to the original point I was making. People who engage in excessive PK do not see it that way, and never will be convinced that's what they've been doing.

Please do me the courtesy of not applying statements to me that I didn't make.

Thats fine. I'll just be karma's love slave

The problem is Brylle that Karma is just as harmful to people who engage in legit PK (and sometimes, you have to kill a lot of people specifically in a raid, etc) than someone who snipes newbies on the highways every so often.

I'll say something constructive now.
How's this for a fix?

Completely remove curses.
Leave the blessings.
Make so that if you are killed, you can remove blessings from someone, but you will not lose suspect status, only instead lose karma, and it will be difficult to get your own blessings since you used up your karma.

There we go, I like it. Though some of the blessings would have to be tweaked a bit, so as to not be overpowering, and karma costs fiddled with.

I...actually really don't like the blessings. They're WAY too good. And easy to get. I say they should only be piddling little things.

I'd certainly agree that that would be a good step.

What Tuek said, except up the free karma gain to 3-4-5 a day.

Lets remove the current Karma all together! We'll replace it so EVERY Death needs to be authorised by a God!

So, if someone never gets a blessing, they'll suffer no consequences for excessive pk?

And I have to agree with Shiri, some of the Blessings seem a little too powerful.