Guild Champions are by far the logical choice for this ability, however they are not always around when someone needs to be rescued, and before a protector can do anything more than see a call for help, the person has been killed.

I think Protectors should be able to rescue as well. It makes their roles more effective on the few times they would actually need to use the skill. It can be easily moderated by the guild for people abusing it, and yes I can see all sorts of scenarios for abuse with it. Like I said though if it is being abused then the guild can simply lay the smack down on them and remove them from the position of Protector.

And people were complaining about spores.....

Daganev, what does that have anything to do with Gregori's suggestion?

I can see how that would be used

(Geomancers)Little Bugger says, "Help, Ethelon is killing me!"
(Geomancers)Tissue says, "Hurry, a protector with Ethelon as a Bully go rescue!!"

More people would be appointed protector status just for such uses

First of all Spores allow the person to escape period.
Rescue switches place with the person. So while the person being rescued gets away, there is now the rescuer standing there in the middle of the situation.

This is a huge difference.

Second of all, as I stated if the Protector is abusing Rescue the guild can simply remove the person from that position. You cannot remove spores from the person.

Why would the guild remove a person when its in the guild's best intrest to have everyone be a protector and allow for swift and brutal attacks against the enemy.

GT: Quick I'm low on health, next guy switch with me!
Gt: The attacker is my bully, let me go in there and get vengence!

Or even... Gt: ok newbie, go into celest behind the guards... Great! now switch.. when the army comes, switch back!

Because not everyone lives on the RP you espouse of self serving motivation.

If a situation is being abused it is in the Guild's best interest to stop that from happening, or they will find that the thing they use to -help- people is taken away from them.

You will note I said that it can be abused, but if Guild A promotes abuse, issueable abuse I might add, then the Guild would find themselves very quickly being sanctioned by the admins.

Currently Protectors are nothing more than a regular guild member with their name on help (guildname). They serve no real function beyond that of any other guildmember.

You can easily see the guilds that start abusing this, as their Protector count starts jumping.

The same abuse though you are describing can be done with ease by any Champion.

"Hey Bob, go stand beside Ethelon for a moment."
-Rescue-

It doesn't happen there, and if people actually RP what they are supposed to, it won't happen with Protectors either.

About the Bully thing. If you are stupid enough to have PK Careful off and attack the person who rescues. Who is to blame? You or the Rescuer. If the Rescuer attacks you, that status is dropped. If you attack and kill the Rescuer you have only yourself to blame for attacking somone on your suspect list. This is no different than if a Champion does the rescuing.

With only one person with the rescue ability that tactic is not valid, because summon works just as well for that purpose.

I can see no reason why Magnagora would not use such a tactic, since rescuing people is for the weak anyways. Celest could easily use the same arguments. And I don't see how such a tactic is issueable.

Its cheap and annoying but does not break any policy that I know of.

I just had a long conversation the other night about protectors, and they are given no hard coded responcibilities for a reason.

Athana sends random person into enemy group. Athana rescues person. Athana immediately forces forest. Army flows in and attacks.

Do not tell me that the tactic is not valid with one person. It is just as valid for one person as for 4 people.

Magnagora != Mhaldor
Fain != Sartan
There is no seven truths, and considering they send people to aid each other all the time. I would gather they rescue too if people called for it. That is the purpose of rescue.

Abuse of any game mechanic is issuable. Abuse of Rescue is just as issuable as anything else there is in the game. If someone abuses something, they can be issued for it.

EDIT:: Considering you can only Rescue your own guildmates to begin with, your chances of abusing this situation are no higher than any Champion abusing this system.

What is the reason?

Since I don't know what the seven truths are in refrence to, I'll just kinda ignore that point since I don't know what it was a counter argument for.

Your tactic is only valid for serenwilde. and in a forested location.

In responce to Elryn.
I'm curious if other people here are aware of concepts that affect the psychology of players and thier actions. If not, I don't know how to explain the reasoning. It does not require any degree in pyschology, but it does require that you read some books on gaming and observed gamer behavior.

Is that an answer to what I asked?

Edit: Before implying that anyone who doesn't immediately understand a passing reference is more ignorant and stupid than you are, could you just give your reasoning? I wasn't even disagreeing with you, I just wondered what your thoughts were.

The Seven Truths is a reference to Sartan's Seven Truth's of evil on Achaea. He was saying that there's no Magnagoran moral code that says they have to be evil and not help each other w/rescuing.

Of course it's not. It's a Daganev 'omg avoided kthxbai' post. We all have them.

I was not avoiding the question, I was answering the question with a question so that I would be better able to answer the question. I was asking if other players were aware of such concepts, not saying that if your not than I can't talk to you. The major I'm in at school has a few classes on the more esoteric nature of gaming, so I wasn't sure what was common gamer knowledge and what I was pulling from those classes I took a few years back.


A position without any hard coded differences between them and another guild member is more enforacable a "position" and nothing more. It allows for the guild to recognize the concept of getting positions for the politics, guild unity, and concepts of authority that such positions create.

Unlike other guild strcutres, in Lusternia, there is a path for those who are combat oriented and not necessarily politically oriented to go. They do not feel left out of the guild structure or policy, but at the same time, it does not give an unfair combat advantage to any but the highest in that guild, via purly political means.

In responce to Magnagora's code of ethics.. yes we do have such an established code. For example, we do not ressurect anybody in the megalith who is below level 40.

Ok, now was that so hard? Did it require half a psychology degree to understand?

Let's see... what I assume you are saying is that having no specific powers a guild protector has more freedom to become whatever his particular guild wants, and they can be carefree in appointing whoever they like. Much like all guilds eventually create their own internal system of rank and position structure which which is entirely separate to the hard-coded ranks. Is that right?

But I don't see how adding one hard-coded privilege for becoming a protector is going to have a negative impact on that freedom. Whatever the position may mean in the guild philosophy, it is always going to revolve around what is described in the associated HELP file, and Gregori's suggestion does not go beyond that. I think it would have to be a diluted rescue ability compared to the Champion version, and it would have to have limitations, but I can't really see it destroying the freedom of the guild. If they are meant to be solely rp, why have protectors at all? Just have the security people, and create your own guild-specific titles from which to draw champions.

I may be missunderstanding what you mean when you say "care free" but Security can only be promoted from Protectors. This is so people can have a time with some form of responciblity, but the dangers of having the more violent members of your group hold political power is not really there.

Giving them an ability like rescue I think would add to much of a combat advantage. It would basically be giving a version of flow to the entire guild. It would not just be used for rescuing a newbie, but also for doing large quests, group combat, and other things that I'm sure I havn't even though of yet. And in truth, almost any ability you can give them can be used to enhance thier combat abilities. And if it can't, then its not really an ability worth having.


Edit: Oh and yes that was hard. I rewrote that post 3 times.

Here's an idea... rather than the Champion rescue, which can save any guildmember, allow all non-protectors/security/champions to be able to CALL FOR HELP, which sends a message to any protectors/champion online. The champion of course can do his rescue stuff immediately if he wants, but protectors are given the option of ASSIST (person) which will teleport them with about a 2 second delay to the side of the person being attacked. Unlike rescue, they aren't replaced, but the protector can get there to help quite quickly. Also, the attacker gets to see the call for help and has a chance to leave.

You mean use GT say "HELP" and then having people teleport over?

In essence, yes. But it would ignore monoliths, and take much less time than a teleport.

Edit: It would give people a sense of feeling important when becoming a protector, since they now are given the impression of being included in an exclusive group - hearing cries for help and such.

Teleport just isn't very helpful when half the realm is covered in monoliths. The protector doesn't have the chance to help, usually.