Unknown2005-02-16 05:17:03
QUOTE(Guido Flagg @ Feb 15 2005, 06:56 PM)
What else are you going to spend your hundreds of thousands of surplus power on, kids?Â
51680
Good question.
Eldanien2005-02-16 11:33:35
No matter how much power each nation has, there's the mindset of saving, hoarding, even the continuous need to grow that number. I know in Celest if it isn't growing even a little bit over several game months, there's a concern.
As Daganev said, I think a cost of 500 power puts this where most who have the ability to use it won't use it for concerns of accountability over cost-effectiveness. Or even more basic, doesn't want to be the one who put a 500 point crimp in the Nexus.
Immolating is watched carefully, though I feel 100 power is well worth it to save someone of high level from experience loss. And Celest has access to people with Resurrect.
It might sound callous, but spending 500 power (several times?) to help keep villagers alive in a village you -know- you're going to have to influence again someday (soon?) is hard to deal with, and it gets worse when you're spending more power on a village (through guards, power use for feats when defending, now Nexus Distort) than the village is providing. I would hazard the guess that most villages cost much more power than they provide, as is.
Celest will likely do it, because of moral obligation. Serenwilde, I couldn't guess. Magnagora? If they're angry enough, maybe. I anticipate their leadership setting down ironclad rules against it, myself. "Don't waste power, get tougher!"
I'd love to see Guild-specific abilities added on, but at 500 power, I'd like to see this a bit more 'final' in effect. Or reduce the cost, and I think you'll see it be used more often. 100 power would make this a deal when dealing with multiple raiders, I think. Even then, there's enough stigma over power conservation that it would take someone of fair authority to allow it. I don't know that every member of each nation's guilds' Security would feel they have the authority to use it without checking with a superior.
Maybe we need a change of mindset, and consider power management a secondary function of Security?
I think, as it is now, the leaders of each nation will have to set rules for when this can be used. I worry that this, combined with such things as declaring aggression and whatever else may come down the line in the future are removing a certain spontaneity from conflicts. "Hold on, let me check my manual, see what I'm supposed to do next." That's a different argument, I suppose.
Myself, I'm having a hard time coming up with a new power cost. No matter the number I pick, I see that it either requires checking with the chain of command (if the cost is high), or the power will see constant use (if the cost is low). I would hazard a guess at 100 power, give or take. Perhaps make the effect last much less time?
Heck, make it cost 50 power, and let the effect last only 10 minutes. That's long enough to deal with 'this raid, right now'.
And yeah, make sure it stop all forms of mystical egress - flow, demense summon, wisp, hermit, catacombs, empress, ghost, even sprint. It'll become something of an armageddon type effect: when Nexus Distort is used, the only way out is to fight your way out. Or die.
As Daganev said, I think a cost of 500 power puts this where most who have the ability to use it won't use it for concerns of accountability over cost-effectiveness. Or even more basic, doesn't want to be the one who put a 500 point crimp in the Nexus.
Immolating is watched carefully, though I feel 100 power is well worth it to save someone of high level from experience loss. And Celest has access to people with Resurrect.
It might sound callous, but spending 500 power (several times?) to help keep villagers alive in a village you -know- you're going to have to influence again someday (soon?) is hard to deal with, and it gets worse when you're spending more power on a village (through guards, power use for feats when defending, now Nexus Distort) than the village is providing. I would hazard the guess that most villages cost much more power than they provide, as is.
Celest will likely do it, because of moral obligation. Serenwilde, I couldn't guess. Magnagora? If they're angry enough, maybe. I anticipate their leadership setting down ironclad rules against it, myself. "Don't waste power, get tougher!"
I'd love to see Guild-specific abilities added on, but at 500 power, I'd like to see this a bit more 'final' in effect. Or reduce the cost, and I think you'll see it be used more often. 100 power would make this a deal when dealing with multiple raiders, I think. Even then, there's enough stigma over power conservation that it would take someone of fair authority to allow it. I don't know that every member of each nation's guilds' Security would feel they have the authority to use it without checking with a superior.
Maybe we need a change of mindset, and consider power management a secondary function of Security?
I think, as it is now, the leaders of each nation will have to set rules for when this can be used. I worry that this, combined with such things as declaring aggression and whatever else may come down the line in the future are removing a certain spontaneity from conflicts. "Hold on, let me check my manual, see what I'm supposed to do next." That's a different argument, I suppose.
Myself, I'm having a hard time coming up with a new power cost. No matter the number I pick, I see that it either requires checking with the chain of command (if the cost is high), or the power will see constant use (if the cost is low). I would hazard a guess at 100 power, give or take. Perhaps make the effect last much less time?
Heck, make it cost 50 power, and let the effect last only 10 minutes. That's long enough to deal with 'this raid, right now'.
And yeah, make sure it stop all forms of mystical egress - flow, demense summon, wisp, hermit, catacombs, empress, ghost, even sprint. It'll become something of an armageddon type effect: when Nexus Distort is used, the only way out is to fight your way out. Or die.
Narsrim2005-02-16 12:06:33
This isn't supposed to be something used every often. If you really want to stop mass teleporting, invest in flamed monolith sigils, etc.
Eldanien2005-02-16 12:40:02
I don't know about you, but I find 2 power well worth 1 iron, 1 silver, 1 gold, 1 platinum.
In other words, setting down flamed monolith sigils in a publicly available place is a good way to give away commodities to enemy enchanters.
In other words, setting down flamed monolith sigils in a publicly available place is a good way to give away commodities to enemy enchanters.
Narsrim2005-02-16 13:31:07
QUOTE(Eldanien @ Feb 16 2005, 08:40 AM)
I don't know about you, but I find 2 power well worth 1 iron, 1 silver, 1 gold, 1 platinum.
In other words, setting down flamed monolith sigils in a publicly available place is a good way to give away commodities to enemy enchanters.
In other words, setting down flamed monolith sigils in a publicly available place is a good way to give away commodities to enemy enchanters.
52062
Good luck taking down monoliths in enemy villages with statues and guards.
Rhysus2005-02-16 13:34:24
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Feb 16 2005, 08:31 AM)
Good luck taking down monoliths in enemy villages with statues and guards.
52077
You mean like Angkrag? Where I got over 100 monoliths worth of commodities for a mere 200 or so power? Lovely, that.
Narsrim2005-02-16 13:41:34
QUOTE(Rhysus @ Feb 16 2005, 09:34 AM)
You mean like Angkrag? Where I got over 100 monoliths worth of commodities for a mere 200 or so power? Lovely, that.
52079
Well what the hell have you been doing lately? The lower mines are filled with monoliths just screaming for you. Celestian enchanters rally!
Typhus2005-02-16 19:05:03
Interesting powers for villages (tack on a power cost)
-Ability to basically monolith (as in "acts as", so that mono sigs aren't there to be broken) a village instantly
-Ability to transport people from your nexus to the village obelisk for a short time
-Ability to instantly inform city leaders of who is in their villages
-Ability to seal off a certain guild set in a village
-Ability to increase the power of denizens in a village incredible
-Ability to set denizens on agro to a target
- Or even the ability to dispell enemy demesnes, monoliths, art, statues, ect..
-Ability to basically monolith (as in "acts as", so that mono sigs aren't there to be broken) a village instantly
-Ability to transport people from your nexus to the village obelisk for a short time
-Ability to instantly inform city leaders of who is in their villages
-Ability to seal off a certain guild set in a village
-Ability to increase the power of denizens in a village incredible
-Ability to set denizens on agro to a target
- Or even the ability to dispell enemy demesnes, monoliths, art, statues, ect..
Narsrim2005-02-17 16:36:38
QUOTE(Typhus @ Feb 16 2005, 03:05 PM)
Interesting powers for villages (tack on a power cost)
-Ability to basically monolith (as in "acts as", so that mono sigs aren't there to be broken) a village instantly
-Ability to transport people from your nexus to the village obelisk for a short time
-Ability to instantly inform city leaders of who is in their villages
-Ability to seal off a certain guild set in a village
-Ability to increase the power of denizens in a village incredible
-Ability to set denizens on agro to a target
- Or even the ability to dispell enemy demesnes, monoliths, art, statues, ect..
-Ability to basically monolith (as in "acts as", so that mono sigs aren't there to be broken) a village instantly
-Ability to transport people from your nexus to the village obelisk for a short time
-Ability to instantly inform city leaders of who is in their villages
-Ability to seal off a certain guild set in a village
-Ability to increase the power of denizens in a village incredible
-Ability to set denizens on agro to a target
- Or even the ability to dispell enemy demesnes, monoliths, art, statues, ect..
52257
-Ability to make villages immune to attack so no form of raiding is possible... oh wait, that's the point of villages. Nevermind.
Typhus2005-02-17 18:43:35
Well, at high cost of power to the city. Which leads to the point, do you personally feel that raiding is balanced against difficulty?
Terenas2005-02-17 19:42:32
Power distortion reminds me of the city improvements Achaea implemented. They cost a ton of gold (3 to 5 million) and 1/3000 of the original improvement montly to upkeep. But all the cities have at least 1 or 2 nowaday since they're so incredibly useful. It would be nice if the admins have similar things like that planned for Lusternia involving powers and Nexus. As everyone has already said, right now powers is really just a number that just keeps going up supplying personal power reserve and guards. The introduction of Manse and distortion field were great new usage for powers, but that still seems a bit too limited, it'll be nice to see what else you guys have in mind.
Unknown2005-02-18 00:35:23
Well from a player who sees a lot inside Angkrag, the distortion field certainly makes me plan a little more. I can't rely totally on Hermits any more, and haven't had the opportunity to test Catacombs on it yet. Getting in past the guards and taking down miners is easy. Having to walk out through the guards and incoming players is another thing entirely. Angkrag's very easy to defend and it's simple to block one of the passages. The quick jump out provided by teleportation means if you want to teleport out, you have to be quicker. It's a good change for village security, and I think the lower cost is a better idea as well. It won't make a lot of difference in some cases, but it's certainly an extra tool. It will see use I think.
Unknown2005-02-18 01:21:24
Cities in Achaea had 80-200 million gold when they implemented the improvements as well, so it took something that radically expensive to make city gold mean anything at all. I would like, and I think the administration is also trying to encourage, some ways to keep power managment significant rather than simply having it build up to be so massive that to toss a few million around here and a few million there is meaningless.
Unknown2005-02-18 01:29:23
Yea, I agree entirely with that point actually. If there's no real threat of ever running out of a resource, there's no reason to really manage it properly. As it is, people are managing things. But if power drains are too high, it enforces people to quest incessantly for power. The balance is delicate, but it would be nice to see more of a drain on power.
Unknown2005-02-18 01:35:52
Answer: Don't make the people quest constantly. Power decisions should be government decisions, and they should be large enough so that people won't feel obligated to get 20,000 power since that's just silly. If it's a matter of spending 10k power here vs 10k power there, then there is basically no pressure on the individuals since none of them could possibly generate or use that much power.