You guys seem to always forget that you also have an insta-kill. That does set you apart, because no other demesne user has one.

*I did vote geomancer. Who ever voted Aquamancer is snorting spores.

Well Geb, ask 5 people who can cure, to follow you around and walk through an Geomancer demesne. Nothing happens, really. Now ask those same 5 people to walk through a Hartstone/Aquamancer's demesne.

I did not say your demesne is not weaker, I just stated that you do have something that sets you apart from other demesne users. Heartstone and Aquamancer demesnes are stronger, but you do have an insta-kill.

I am not adverse to geomancers receiving a demesne upgrade. Perhaps an upgrade that gives periodic sensitivity. If your demesne did receive stun or a constant prone, you guys would probably have to give up your insta-kill. You already have the ability to pop up walls that are impervious to ignite. Giving you stun and a guaranteed passive prone ability would make you guys near undefeatable one on one. The right afflictions and illusions would easily set someone up for the chasm kill (Especially since the only way to stop that ability is to leave the room it seems)

I want an insta-kill...

Geomancers seem to have to strategize more while the other mages can get away with being lazy.

Heh, I would take an insta-kill instead of Jellies and Tsunami. Heck, I rarely fight in a demesne. Only time I normally fight in one is for FFAs. Normally, I just use runes, staff, and Illusions. If I had an insta-kill, I could finish people off a lot easier, since I pretty much have to mess them up enough affliction wise to keep them from healing effectively (I am a dracnari, so my damage is not that heavy or fast).

Moondancers are the weakest guardian class by far.

We dont have an insta kill like the other two. Toadcurse is not an instakill!


We have so many fae that are useless:Leprechaun, Sylph(this one actually doesnt do anything),Brownie (0.5 balance steal), Pixie (nulled by insomia and kafe unless you take healing), mother (heals 200 health), dryad(you cant sieze someone into a tree if they have circle/pentagram and it takes balance to do)

Nyla, are you ignorant.

Leprechaun, I agree, slyph, agree, brownie is useful with all your ents together. Pixie, it takes 200 mana to put insomnia back up, which makes toadcurse a lot easier to do then instantkill. Mother, you have a guaranteed 200 health, + 250 health from sparkleberry, and 350-700 health from sipping. Dryad tree is useful, it enables you to swing into trees where you could cure, and most people can't get you there.

I am not ignorant. Everyone just says moondancers are awesome because of Tuek and Narsrim. The skills arent that good.

Moondancers skills are good, its just no one has ever fought with them, aside from Narsrim and Tuek. And the fact that I fought Narsrim before he became any good (), I know how good your skills are (plus Narsrim brags a lot). Narsrim, before you reply: the best 3 guilds are, in no particular order: Hartstone, Ur'guard, Moondancers.

This is incorrect. The total afflictions a crone can do is not very broad and the afflictions possible tend to suck. For example, the crone can give shyness and agoraphobia... woo

Those can be given by demons, in my whole time as a Nihilist, I used around 7 afflictions.

I SO wish I could program what my crone is going to give. As it is, it's not really that great. Nice, yes, but great, no. And seeing as it's the only way for a healer to give more than sleep, aeon, or darkmoon...

A nihilist with hexes or tarot could take any moondancer who is not Tuek or Narsrim.

Given Silvanus’s comments, I have decided to write my own little envoy report to dispel the rumors that Moondancers are a powerful class. First, I’d like to clarify a point that tends to confuse some people. Whereas Tuek and I are both decent fighters (Tuek being exceptionally better), that does not therefore imply that the Moondancer class is “strong.” We both have good systems. We both were good fighters in other IRE games. Thus, our strength tends to be in our systems, our strategies, and our overall knowledge of the combat system more so than the abilities of the Moondancers. Furthermore, I would like to respond to Silvanus’s comment, “And the fact that I fought Narsrim before he became any good , I know how good your skills are...” amuses me because he failed to say that he fought me before I had any system for Lusternia or quicksilver elixir. With that said, let us look at what Moondancers pack offensively:

Wicca

There are four entities in Wicca that are offensive: brownie, pixie, banshee, and crone.

The brownie is the most useless of the four. Every 10 seconds, it tickles to knock the opponent off-balance for 0.5 seconds. I would like to point out that unlike stun, off-balance isn’t that useful unless it is for a prolonged period of time because the target can still heal, cure, etc. The only function of the brownie in the past that made it useful was its former ability to break magical shields.

The pixie is a bit better than the brownie but nothing special. Insomnia costs a mere 100 (not 200, Silvanus) mana to put back up. Given that insomnia can be obtained by novices in Lusternia, it really isn’t that special. Furthermore, I’ve fought people who don’t even use insomnia and simply rely on kafe to wake/stand as soon as they are put to sleep. Furthermore, I sincerely doubt anyone can label 100 mana every 10 seconds as a “mana drain.”

The banshee drains approximately 300 health and mana from the target. The damage type is magical thus the health damage lowers with any ability that decreases magic damage. For example, my banshee does 100-150 damage on Tuek. While nothing special, the banshee also can be counter productive. Assuming that a pixie was able to put someone to sleep, a blast from the banshee will awaken the target.

The crone is the best of the four although far from mighty. The crone deals several afflictions although 85% of them can be cured by focus find. Although there are several decent afflictions possible, there are as many useless (shyness, claustrophobia, etc.).

Outside of the passive entities, there is the pooka which I label as “semi-passive.” The pooka has gotten quite a reputation for itself although this tends to be from fighters who are mediocre at best. The two most popular forces are “focus body” to add a drain of 150 mana every 10 seconds or sip . Some of the more creative forces, like “dive,” were changed so that they could not be forced (with no explanation as to why). Furthermore, initial forces are extremely easy to prevent. As much as I hate to do this, I would like to end the bitching once and for all. If you simply sit you ass down (thus intentionally making yourself prone), no one can run into a room and initially force you to do a command that takes power (e.g. surge, cannibalize mana, etc).

*note* I would like to point out that the “sit trick” is a prime example of being a creative fighter. This takes no special skill. It just takes a little bit of foresight. This is why Tuek and I are decent. We think ahead.

The transcendent ability of Wicca is toad curse. If a target is below half mana, they can be toaded for 8p. This ability has potential to be useful although it is a bit lacking as some bugs skill haunt it. First and foremost, toads move as fast as a normal person. Unless I have all the exits sealed with icewalls, a toad can get a HUGE lead on me before I can regain equilibrium. Furthermore, toads move as if shrouded thus it is impossible to chase. Whereas many people hark, “Well then, use icewalls,” this is simply not feasible EVERY SINGLE TIME you fight. Believe me, I try. I go through a wand of icewall every 2-3 days. Furthermore, icewalls are far from incognito. Any decent fighter immediately recognizes icewalls from a Moondancer as a sign to heal mana and if such is not feasible, flee (ignite icewalls, leap, tumble, roll, fly, climb up into trees, etc).

Moon

Moon has four offensive abilities: lash, wane, dark, and moonburst.

Lash is perhaps my favorite ability available to Moondancers. It heals the caster of a little bit of health and drains some mana.

Wane (aeon) is extremely useful against the ill prepared but borderline useless on any decent fighter. Anyone who has a decent system has aeon balance. Unlike Nihilists or Celestines, Moondancers cannot readily give aeon/anorexia at the same time (even if the Moondancer has hexes). Furthermore, I sincerely wish wane would be changed to “cabalist style aeon” in Aetolia during the Waning Moon. That is, the aeon does not fade after a few seconds. It lasts until cured. This would make it quasi-useful for 7 hours every 25 or so.

Dark Moon is the single worst affliction skill (except Ancestral Curse where is more or less a copy-cat skill in Stag although at least it gives interesting afflictions like generosity). For 8p, an average of 3-4 afflictions is dealt. To my knowledge, all but 1 of these afflictions can be cured by 1 herb. To top it all off, focus spirit will actually negate this ability before it can deal afflictions (250 mana negates 8p). Finally, Dark Moon is an advanced skill in Moon (around mythical). Compared to Heretic and Infidel (total post cost of 6p) which deal about 8-9 afflictions, Dark Moon is a joke.

Moonburst is part of the transcendent ability, Drawdown. Moonburst is a magical attack (100%) magic damage with an equilibrium cost that exceeds almost every other magic-based attack. The damage dealt is not much better than the nature curse (and nature curse is a bit faster). I tested earlier with Terenas and dealt 650 damage with 14 int. Given the equilibrium cost, it is impossible for me to stack up damage on him (he is a Merian Serenguard... that says it all). Furthermore, there are many defense skills that lower magic damage (resistance, draconis, etc) including the Magic skillset. Furthermore, this fabled transcendent magic-attack is extremely weak when compared with other magical attacks like Aqua-staff (which due to being heat based has few magical defenses)

*note* Valek once pointed out that there was an exceptional array of physical resistance abilities available making Knight damage sub par. I would like to do the same with magic resistances.

Healing

Whereas I assumed that Healing would be as useful in Lusternia as Achaea/Aetolia (and sadly, it is so pathetic when compared although that is a different topic), it does have a single offensive ability as the transcendent skill: Bedevil.

Bedevil is moderately useful although difficult to use at any given time given the mana cost of 1000 mana. Furthermore, bedevil does not transfer afflictions as stated:

AB HEALING BEDEVIL

Syntax: BEDEVIL

Bedevil is the sole offensive ability within Healing. As it goes counter to your training as a healer, it is difficult, mentally, to use, and thus carries with it a high cost in mana. You will be able to focus your will upon a hapless victim, and channel your afflictions into him or her. Further, as a result of doing this, some of your afflictions may be cured.

This implies to me that bedevil should transfer all afflictions and heal some in the process; however, that is *not* the case. Bedevil only transfers about 50-65% of afflictions and cures 2-3 of them in the process. Furthermore, certain afflictions do not transfer correctly like paralyze, masochism, health leech, etc. When this is fixed, Bedevil may be very worthwhile, and I do hope that day comes.

Nature

Nature vines is nothing more than web useable only in a forest. It has the same speed and no longer stacks making it mediocre at best.

Faerie fire negates shroud for 70 seconds or so. It can be useful but it isn’t really anything exceptional. Yet again, this skill is mediocre at best.

Lowmagic


Lowmagic has two offensive abilities: Spring and Violet.

Spring has an exceptional equilibrium cost and strips a random defense (unknown to the caster and the victim). Furthermore, it costs 700 mana. I find this somewhat useful in a ongoing, never ending FFA battle but that’s about it.

Violet inflicts damage on ghosts. I don’t have this ability so I am not sure “how” useful it is but to date, I know of 1 person dying to Violet (who then liched) so it is possible to use. However, I’ve seen Tuek fire this off at many ghosts and he’s only killed 1 so we’ll leave it at that.

-----

That concludes my offense. As I hope you can see, there is nothing exceptionally useful and certainly very little to fear. Whereas Guardian classes have four options to kill (and bitch about sacrifice all you want, the perks of pulling it off are amazing and it sure beats nothing), Moondancers get two. Whereas we have a transcendent damage skill, we don’t stack damage (even an Elfen with 18 int will only burst for about 900 damage against most classes with full defs).

On a side note, I had a recent encounter with a noncombatant Geomancer (who shot a boulder me) only to find that she could shield as fast as I could nullify and never ended up getting hit by my Fae (except the brownie twice which as reported, didn’t slow her down).

And finally, I find it amusing that Aquamancers were listed as an option for the weakest class. Whereas Geb will tell you that Aquamancers “lack an instant kill” and thus are not all that special, I don’t think any decent fighter would dare proclaim: Aquamancers are weaker than Moondancers.

Oh gods! You agree that a a slyph which does NOTHING is indeed useless. Good to know. Furthermore, if you are getting beaten down by a 0.5 off-balance, you just suck at combat... Nyla is very much on target. As for the Mother, 200 health every 10 seconds is nice but far from exceptional. How much health does a Viscanti regen in taint? And finally, geyser can be enchanted. There is no excuse no to be able to get someone out of a tree (which costs 1p)

I might have already posted this, but can't Serenguard use both arm balances and give aeon at the same time?

No. You have to regain balance before you can wane.

Our insta-kill isn't spectacular Geb... you have no idea how easy it is to avoid. I hardly ever use it against anyone because I think it's a waste of power if you're fighting someone who's at least a decent enough fighter. Heck, I remember sparring you and you would keep tumbling out of my room to stop chasm. Nothing I can do about that... even IF I afflicted you horribly, which was a very rare thing due to my single staffslings. I got lucky because your system messed up.

Well, raze is faster than wane, so Serenguard have an advantage using it there at least.

I'm sorry but you are diluted. Chasm is the fastest and easiest to use instant kill there is. You can raise stonewalls which will prevent almost anyone from leaving. Furthermore, it takes *gasp* 3p to use. The failure isn't Chasm, the failure is your ability to use it correctly.