Serenwilde and Celest

by Ceres

Back to Common Grounds.

Daganev2005-03-11 20:31:21
Due to the lack of Celest people on these forums I realize now that my attacks against Serenwilde were completely unwarranted.

The bad RP is not on Serenwilde's part, its on CELESTS!

Celest should be trying to convert the Serenwilde to light as much as Magnagora is trying to convert the world to Taint....

Now I'm really pissed, buecase there are no Celestians on these forums with who to argue this point with! GRRRRRR

The Celest patrons have done a good job Converting Narsrim, and Serenwilde should be a bit warry of that, but since Celest as a whole is not being all conversion like I can understand why serenwilde is not worried about Narsrim bailing on them like he bailed on Mag.
Shiri2005-03-11 20:37:48
Narsrim's not bailing on us quite like he bailed on Magnagora. He's just helping the two at once. It's quite different. (He was one of the ones trying to steal the Celestian dwarves with the peaceful crown quest, remember.)
And that would be a good thing actually. *ponder* I wonder how it'd work, though.
Gwylifar2005-03-11 20:38:18
Boy, I'm so tired of this. I think I'm going to go start telling the citydwellers what they think, then afterwards I'll tell them that it's wrong, and then I'll wrap up with saying it's bad RP. I'll studiously avoid finding out anything about what they think first, just to improve the authenticity of the technique.
Jack2005-03-11 20:38:38
QUOTE(Erion @ Mar 11 2005, 07:17 PM)
I foresee Gaudiguch allying heavily with Magnagora, as long as the Taint doesn't become all "DIE".  There's even the chance (and theory) that Gaudiguch HAD Kethuru in it, as Kethuru disappeared right as Gaudiguch dissapeared.  Hallifax's fears may have been well founded.  And Gaudiguch may come back entirely tainted.
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I can't see Gaudiguch or Hallifax really giving a damn about the Taint (unless one of 'em is Tainted, in which case, I can see Tainted City/Magnagora/Glomdoring VS other city/Celest/Serenwilde, which would be.. Pretty huge). The only reason the Taint was such a huge deal was because anything and everyone it touched became 'infected' and undead/mutated. As the Taint no longer possesses this mutagenic quality, I can see Gaudiguch and Hallifax being fairly "meh" over Magnagora, and treating them no differently than any other potential political ally.

And due to so many Hallifax-supporting individuals (people such as Rexali and Jelaludin) being in Magnagora, and very likely jumping at the chance to join it, I actually see them as a more viable choice of political ally than Gaudiguch (two people, off-hand, that I can think of in the Guardians of the Eternal Flame are Akraasiel and Ellara, both fairly ill-disposed towards Magnagora). And, like it says in the history, Gaudiguch may be the party-animals but Hallifax were the trouble-makers. wink.gif
Daganev2005-03-11 20:46:00
What would be a good thing? and how would what work?

Celest has all the tools at hand to try to convert and flood the world. They allready have the Chritian rituals in place and have plenty of reason to look at Christianity during the time of the Crusades.

As much as I would hate for Celest to become "christian" its probably the easiest route for them to go in the RPless City that they have.

Two ideas. 1. You have Terentia followers, they should be actively killing Magnagorans, and actively trying to get Serenwilders to USE the great spirits instead of Worshiping them. Have them follow and respect the supernals who are greating in both number and power, and have them see the Great spirits as tools for them to use to worship the great Spirits.

2. For the Isune followers, The TRUE compassion in life is compassion of the Light. Nature, is much too violent, Its kill or be killed, What type of compassion is that? Nature is just as much about Death as it is about life, and Those who are Truly compassionate and kind will see this as a BAD way of life. Animals are to be hugged, not hunted (unless they hunt other animals) Compassionate Celestians should not only not kill People, but they shouldn't kill deer or stags either, they should only kill Deseased rats, and killing lions or what not. (unless they are sickly deer, then they can kill them out of pity or whatnot)

If this is done propperly, that should make the more Ritualistic elements of Serenwilde, and even Merloch not trust Celest AS much.

Serenwilde can fight Magnagora phyiscally, while Celest fights Serenwilde Spiritually, and that might even result in some planar Conflict!


Why oh Why did I miss this before!??!?!?!? *thwap self*
Shiri2005-03-11 20:48:46
That thing you just said. That would be good, and I wonder how it would work. But you just explained that so it's okay.

I mean, I'd totally hate it (I don't WANT to have to choose between Order and Guild/Commune, I love all 3 :/) but it would still be good. >_<''
Shamarah2005-03-11 20:50:14
I don't understand why people think this is bad RP. How is it bad RP in any way that Celest and Serenwilde allied with each other against a stronger Magnagora? This happens all the time, it's the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" syndrome. Allying for defensive, economic, manipulative, tactical reasons, NONE OF THEM ARE BAD RP. In fact, very little actually is bad RP as much as people say. Just because they don't have a philosophical and background reason to work together doesn't mean that they shouldn't.
Unknown2005-03-11 20:52:52
Here's the thing, if Magnagora would stop attacking Serenwilde, and stop being a constant threat to them... Serenwilde most likely wouldn't attack Magnagora. As Serenwilde has said in the past, they are working with Celest.. not being allies.
Desdemona2005-03-11 20:54:38
I blame your bear brain. It must be a slow one when processing thought. tongue.gif Seriously though, I think you are quite correct. If you remember the conversation of Ethereal v. Cosmic, the idea that the Light (or those who follow the Light, to avoid anything) would want to convert Ethereal/Serenwilde to the Light, emerged.. But right now, that would be bad tactic. I mean, Magnagora is securing a resentfulness from Serenwilde towards them. Why wouldn't both Celest/Seren, take advantage of being stronger when grouped?

Something that would break Serenwilde from Celest would be if Celests did engage on a Crusade trying to convert everything without the slightest respect to the laws of Nature.

Though, I must say that you are wrong about Celests not being on this forum. Take a look at Rhysus. Still, like I said... I doubt Celest will want to ruin their relation with Serenwilde, seeing how together can tame Magnagora.
Unknown2005-03-11 21:22:29
When Magnagora is the only imperialistic city, working hard toward it's goals (and often being aggressive about it) instead of just trying to keep the world balance as it is now, probably nothing will change. New Celest doesn't seem to aspire to anything right now, so Serenwilders don't see any potential danger from Celestians.

EDIT: That's an interesting observation Daganev, I didn't think about it that way before.
Yrael2005-03-11 21:34:38
QUOTE(Erion @ Mar 12 2005, 06:17 AM)
I foresee Gaudiguch allying heavily with Magnagora, as long as the Taint doesn't become all "DIE".  There's even the chance (and theory) that Gaudiguch HAD Kethuru in it, as Kethuru disappeared right as Gaudiguch dissapeared.  Hallifax's fears may have been well founded.  And Gaudiguch may come back entirely tainted.
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Kethy buggered off because He - like everyone else - was stunned by the Nexus' of Hallifax and Gaudiguch going at it, then removing themselves from time.
Erion2005-03-11 21:49:19
QUOTE(Kidchex @ Mar 11 2005, 03:39 PM)
I'd have to say i'm pretty sick of the way some people are completely pro-celest.

My character couldn't give two squats if you're celestian or magnagoran. To him as long as your not a guild or a commune enemy he doesn't really care one way or the other.  He also tries to stay away from Celest v. Magnagoran fights. Unless of course he gets roped in by those whose opinion he values.  I do have to say though he's been jumped by magnagorans for no reason, or very little reason. Stangmar for example just started wailing on him with no cause and then killed him for no reason at all. Hell I don't even think he struck back.

It's things like that, that make some serens even buddy buddier with Celest. Rambled on a bit, point being my guy would love it if the cities just left Serenwilde alone and Serenwilde only interacted with the cities when there was need.

Edit: I have a nasty headache and my contacts are bothering the hell out of me so if I messed up something in the post or the edit grammer/spelling wise i'll offer a half-hearted apology now.
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Stangmar is in NO way a representative of Mag. =\\ He does more random, unbiased jumpings than I USED to.
Erion2005-03-11 21:53:42
Celest does need to start a very proud Merian RP, you know, racism. Tolerance, but extreme racism. I could see Terentia leading this, having been the right-hand of Meridian.

And it needs to start forcing the abduction of Fae. Like, some of them *coughCerescough* need to go into Eth seren and kill Fae, then drop them into the well, and lead them to Raziela. It would do good for a nice Celest/Seren conflict.
Manjanaia2005-03-11 21:59:25
I'm tired of hearing Magnagora complaining about Celest and Serenwilde's friendly terms. Magnagora chose to go to war with Serenwilde as Celest and they still fought. Celest and Serenwilde are not filled with stupid politicians, it's obvious that they would stand a better chance against Magnagora if they allied. Now the war is over, but Celest and Serenwilde remain on friendly terms. Why not? Celest doesn't attempt to harm Serenwilde, and from a political point of view, it would not be shrewd for the Serenwilde politicians to throw away friendly terms over old arguments. So the Serenwilde dislike the idea of a city, so what? Celest doesn't force them to live in a city. Why can you not see that people's opinions change, just as they do in the real world. Some Serenwildes posting here have proved that disdain of cities is still there, but as the political climate has changed from the Old Celestian Empire, through to now with a mad free-for-all for powers and resources, it is wise for the Serenwilde to build a relationship with one city or the other. They chose us because it would have been appalling RP to side with the city attacking them. I think the Seren have played the game well. They are the pendulum of the game. They have the power to really boost one city or the other, and have played both. But of course as Magnagora declared war on them, they pendulum swung towards Celest.
Kharvik2005-03-11 22:20:57
QUOTE(Jack @ Mar 11 2005, 03:38 PM)
I can't see Gaudiguch or Hallifax really giving a damn about the Taint (unless one of 'em is Tainted, in which case, I can see Tainted City/Magnagora/Glomdoring VS other city/Celest/Serenwilde, which would be.. Pretty huge). The only reason the Taint was such a huge deal was because anything and everyone it touched became 'infected' and undead/mutated. As the Taint no longer possesses this mutagenic quality, I can see Gaudiguch and Hallifax being fairly "meh" over Magnagora, and treating them no differently than any other potential political ally.

And due to so many Hallifax-supporting individuals (people such as Rexali and Jelaludin) being in Magnagora, and very likely jumping at the chance to join it, I actually see them as a more viable choice of political ally than Gaudiguch (two people, off-hand, that I can think of in the Guardians of the Eternal Flame are Akraasiel and Ellara, both fairly ill-disposed towards Magnagora). And, like it says in the history, Gaudiguch may be the party-animals but Hallifax were the trouble-makers.  wink.gif
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You know, when the Guardians clan was first created (long time ago) by far the majority of its members were Magnagoran. Then once we put a node up Magnagora seemed to realize that the possibility of two new cities was real, two new cities that could be potential competition. Thus they practically kicked any member of the Guardians out of the city.. it was that or pay 10k a year to stay and another 10k to leave (not everyone is this rich). Thats why right now there arent many Magnagoran members, some had to quit the clan to stay in the city, and some just flat out quit the city. Of course now they are acting rather hypocritical sponsoring clans to bring back Hallifax, a city that they once fined people for trying to free. Anyways, my point is, there are probably just as many "Gaudiguch individuals" as there are "Hallifax individuals" in Magnagora so to say Hallifax will more likely be tainted based on that seems wrong. I think the cities views on the Magnagora vs Celest/Serenwilde conflict and Taint will be more the "meh" views like someone else said in the thread. But who knows..

This of course is totally off the thread's topic but I figured I would respond to Jack here
Geb2005-03-11 22:21:32
All I see some people doing is complaining that their city can not easily bully people because they decided to band together against them. I see this same mindset held by people who like to play evil in every game that I have been apart of. They feel that they should be able to do anything negative to others, because that is good role-play for evil. What they fail to realize is that evil that is extremely overt will always cause groups of like-minded or not so like-minded people to put aside their differences to deal with the greater threat.

All people have to do is look at Earth’s own history to see examples of Countries who were normally enemies or neutral to each other, band together to take on an even greater foe that would overwhelm them if they worked individually. Unfortunately people who play evil characters seem to lack the subtlety needed to keep the world from turning against them. So they then resort to coming to the boards to complain about everyone being against them, when in actuality they are responsible for the situation they find themselves in.

My solution to you people who desire to role-play evil is to learn to actually role-play intelligent and covert evil. Evil that is hidden and smart is a lot harder to rally troops against than the evil that is blatant and seeming mindless in its pursuits. You may want to keep this saying in your mind when you try to role-play your part as being evil, “The greatest lie the devil ever told was convincing the world that he does not exist.” Perhaps if you worked to dispel the image of your city being full of a bunch of bullies, you may be able to eventually lower your threat level to the Serenwilde and Celest. In turn both entities will gradually see their need to work together decrease and maybe the minor problems between them two can come to the fore again.
Ceres2005-03-11 22:22:15
QUOTE(Erion @ Mar 11 2005, 09:53 PM)
Celest does need to start a very proud Merian RP, you know, racism.  Tolerance, but extreme racism.  I could see Terentia leading this, having been the right-hand of Meridian.

And it needs to start forcing the abduction of Fae.  Like, some of them *coughCerescough* need to go into Eth seren and kill Fae, then drop them into the well, and lead them to Raziela.  It would do good for a nice Celest/Seren conflict.
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Ceres would happily tear the limbs from every Serenwilder out there, one by one.

Problem: She'd be cast out of the Celest.
Niara2005-03-11 22:23:04
It is indeed pretty easy to understand why Serenwilde tends more towards Celest than to Magnagora. Celest doesn't try to kill Serenwilders while Magnagorans do so every day.
This doesn't mean that Serenwilde really likes Celest in any way. Of course there are a few relationships here and there but that is more or less all.
Unknown2005-03-11 22:29:11
QUOTE(geb @ Mar 11 2005, 10:21 PM)
All I see some people doing is complaining that their city can not easily bully people because they decided to band together against them. I see this same mindset held by people who like to play evil in every game that I have been apart of. They feel that they should be able to do anything negative to others, because that is good role-play for evil. What they fail to realize is that evil that is extremely overt will always cause groups of like-minded or not so like-minded people to put aside their differences to deal with the greater threat.

All people have to do is look at Earth’s own history to see examples of Countries who were normally enemies or neutral to each other, band together to take on an even greater foe that would overwhelm them if they worked individually. Unfortunately people who play evil characters seem to lack the subtlety needed to keep the world from turning against them. So they then resort to coming to the boards to complain about everyone being against them, when in actuality they are responsible for the situation they find themselves in.

My solution to you people who desire to role-play evil is to learn to actually role-play intelligent and covert evil. Evil that is hidden and smart is a lot harder to rally troops against than the evil that is blatant and seeming mindless in its pursuits. You may want to keep this saying in your mind when you try to role-play your part as being evil, “The greatest lie the devil ever told was convincing the world that he does not exist.”  Perhaps if you worked to dispel the image of your city being full of a bunch of bullies, you may be able to eventually lower your threat level to the Serenwilde and Celest. In turn both entities will gradually see their need to work together decrease and maybe the minor problems between them two can come to the fore again.
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If it's always about evil vs everything else, make another 'evil' city/commune, so the forces are ~equal.
I agree with the last part though. Evil's not 'kill kill kill'. (I'm not implying all Magnagorans are like that)
Xavius2005-03-12 00:50:44
The desire to keep friendly terms with Serenwilde was stuck in by Celest's builders. We have a "commune consolate" in the city park. The room description even says that it's there to keep open relations.

That having been said, the planar conflict is deadened by city law. Raziela wants us to lead fae to her, but I'd get kicked out and enemied if I did it. Xavius (hell, Xavius and me) doesn't care much for the idea.

I blame Elaria and all the other censor.gif censor.gif censor.gif heretical, censor.gif tree-hugging censor.gif out there. May they burn in the corner of Nil that spawned them.