I think it is a smart thing to do. Try to keep good relations with Serenwilde and just watch Magnagora drown. It is unlikely for them to promote activities that could detach Serenwilde from them, especially when chances are that Magnagora could probably push the two closer.

Xavius, let me ask you this.. What would you rather have.. doing the fae quests, where we are attacked by Serenwilde and Magnagora. Or... Give up that quest.. in order not to have a team against us?

Are you asking me or Xavius? Xavius thinks Serenwilde is only a small step above Magnagora. Magnagora spread the taint, but Celest released it. The reason why Celest is "better" in his mind is that Celest stepped up and tried to clean up. Serens? They turned tail, said "Forget the Basin," and fought to keep their forest clean.

Now, if you're asking me, I want to return the favor that Magnagora showed Celest when we were getting served up on a bed of our guards' corpses.

The problem, as I see it, is that Serenwilde and Celest are treating everything in a purely political stance. Basically the only difference between the two right now is their physical locations. It's almost exactly like most of the real world today, they don't do anything at all to each other because of the risk of offending each other. Yet, these two groups are supposed to be idealistic, like the way Magnagora already is, except in a different way. But, they refuse to do anything that would fit their ideals, because it's againts their Other ideals, namely politics.
Also, I was of the impression that it was Serenwilde who started the war, because they generalized that if one/a few people were raising Crow from Magnagora then all Magnagora must be punished. I certainly had nothing to do with it.

Kashim - After talking to some people, and some IC things, I think Glomdoring isn't that far off. A couple of months or so, tops.

Errr.. no, Magnagora started the War. Magnagora intended to raise Crow, extinguish the flame, etc, Kaervas just jumped the gun on their plans.

Does Magnagora, ingame, want Serenwilde and Celest allied?

If not, take steps to break it up - ingame. Where is the issue in that?

They tried. And failed. It was actually kinda funny. Granted, they could try again, but we players in Celest owe it to the demoralized players in Magnagora to pull another Erion.

They've made a couple rather transparent attempts (re: getting their soldiers to tell random Seren that if they influenced Southgard, the dwarves wouldn't die, and only Celestian ones would be killed) and the very blatant (but it worked! >_<) one in Southgard the time before THAT, which actually worked temporarily (I'll find you all the topic if you don't remember that), so it's been poked at, but presumably it hasn't seemed worth pursuing.

The question is, how can Magnagora break up Serenwilde and Celest? Violence towards Serenwilde is definately not the answer, and I'm not sure if Celest will be received with open protecting arms if Celest gets attacked... Serenwilde could probably act as Celests bodyguard, you know all the: you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

Probably Magnagora's only chance to not have problem with both parties is if they left Serenwilde alone, when "peaceful" for a while or went back to bullying Celest... but what is really needed is a change in the leadership of Celest, something that leads to Celest wanting to be an empire and spread the light as opposed to a symbiot with Serenwilde.

Well theres just no reason for Serenwilde or Celest to change what is essentially a wonderful arrangement. It is NOT bad RP, just a different interpretation of it based on the current situation.

If a breakup of the Serenwilde/Celest cooperation will disadvantage both of them and give their enemy an advantage... why would they change? Sure, Serenwilde could be more extreme in their view on cities, but it just isn't set up that way, and the loss in position certainly isn't worth it.

That leaves Magnagora as the only party who have a vested interest in changing things. As long as they remain the biggest enemy of both Serenwilde & Celest, the 'alliance' will still have reason to exist.

What about organizing with the Divine for an event where they focus all their offense on Serenwilde, and totally ignore Celest and Celestian efforts. Now if Celest helps Serenwilde it is purely for Serenwilde's benefit, and the lack of any return benefit will help shake up the desire to risk their lives for it. Next give (or find an existing) resource that only one of them can possess that is extremely beneficial to both. That will encourage competition, and without Magnagora uniting Serenwilde/Celest it may be enough to bring them into direct conflict.

And if Celest helps Serenwilde, which it should do if it wants to keep this comfortable relation, it will bond them even more.
Second part sounds good.

One alternative would be if suddenly Raziela went ill because she hasn't converted any fae, and suddenly the whole plane of Celestia experience a small instability... stripping the Celestines from their Guardian power, unless fae are given to Raziela. This would have Paladins/Aquamancers have to give fae to the supernals. On the side of Serenwilde, if there were a quest when suddenly the trees start complaining about angels, and... the fae being "enlightened". While Magnagora could also suffer their own problem, Gorgulu going insane again.

The end result would be all three sides busy, one side forced to gradually detach from the other... finally making the three parts seperate again, once the quests are settled.

But right now, it would be dumb for either side to abandon their safe advantageful positions.

But, see. That really won't work. Because there's many Celestians who believe they need to fight out of the goodness of their heart.

Which is kind of against the history, where the Celestine Empire was focused HEAVILY on simply their own expansion - they disregarded nature (Read: Balach Swamp) in this pursuit. Now, all of a sudden, they're all "Oh, here Serenwilde, I'll kiss your butt and lick your boots." Which is very against what they should be, and what Erion was - We're Celestines. We are Merian. We are the Light. You either are with us, or against us. Nature has only one part in our Light - as a Holy place. If Nature does not wish to convert completely, then it must be destroyed, for it will then, one day, become subdued by the Taint.

=\\ Or, at least, that was his pro-Methrenton view.

I've contemplated that idea, actually. Maybe Luciphage and Nifilhema put a curse on Raziela, turning her into a demon, and only the blood of Fae could cure her, by feeding Fae to the White Amaranth.

My guess is the best way would be to woo one, the other, or both. That is, try to be more friendly and less, say, psychopathically, violently hostile.

And yet with all of Erion's views of being the light yada yada yada mess, he seems to be the one that easily fell to the taint.

...What, Geb? Wasn't Erion the one that was rogue for a good 5-6 years, repeatedly going into Celest (despite being enemied) to pray at the remains of the Saint with Lyren?

Yes, fell very easily indeed.

Actually, here's a better idea. Raziela, having not converted any fae, and cherubs now mostly becoming imps, becomes extremely, extremely sad. IE constant state of depression - perm vulnerability. The solution? Reverting Fae, and then converting them through Raziela.

Bingo.

Else, Mag won't even needed corpses to weaken her. We'll just run in and kill 'er. Eventually.

Yes, 5 or 6 years is still falling easily in my view. I look at people in the real world who kept their ideals for 30+ years or even died with their ideals. 5 or 6 years is still falling to the taint easily.