Technically, we killed the fae first

Shush you... and it wasn't we.. it was a few morons

Isn't Glomdoring an example of how the Taint -did- destroy a forest?

And you can't say its not destruction, just an inconsequential change - all three communes were ready to kill themselves rather than allow their spirits to be tainted. The fae fought against the taint directly. Seems to me history sort of gives us reasons to be against both cities sure, but definitely against the taint.

I have been meaning to look up what Auseklis said that gets referenced all the time... I liked what he said about herbs, but all this about the taint being fine I don't understand.

But it goes against the Will of Elohora, which is to bring ALL under the reign of the Light - and as Elohora is the LEADER of Celestia, and the Holy Lady, HER ideals reign ABSOLUTE over all of Celestia. It's Elohora before all, then Japhiel, Methrenton and Shakiniel, and Raziela. Raziela's just the pretty girl with no brains, and no say. She just looks cute. She's communism. Cute, idealistic, but not practical. Shakiniel is China. Defensive, extremely xenophobic. Works only until a point. Methrenton is Hitler. Offensive, crush the opposition no matter what. Except, he's going to screw himself in the end by attacking the Ukraine. Japhiel is France. Nice, fun, the women don't shave, but, hey, it's the city of love, who can fault it? But, when it comes down to it, he can't put out an offence.

This leaves us with Elohora. She's the embodiment of the Light, and is a careful balance between the four faces of the Light. They're the faces, but she's the mind. She's the heart. Her will should be more important than ANY one aspect.

It's the same with Nil.

And, by that logic, all of Nil is alive. Very much so. And they are happy with the Taint. So why kill them? That's anti-Raziela, and against Her teachings.

The fae themselves weren't really affected by the Taint, I think. It was Rowena the hand that decided to slay the fae when she noticed the fae's "immunity". Still, though, I think that the Light/Taint should be considered as equal enemies to the normal order of things, all that existed prior to the discovery of the Light.

How were they morons?

I've talked to Him myself, but that's all a whole lot of IC stuff. His own words was that the Glomdoring was a SHINING example of Taint and Nature working together. What's the Spore grass? The thorn beast? Where in the Glomdoring is there actually death? All I see is life, in varying shades. The ravenwoods flourish, the grass is everywhere, the animals live strong, even a few of the former druids are alive, even if it's unlife.

Nature wasn't destroyed. Where in the serenwilde do you see the plants coming alive, and killing invaders? I see Thornbeasts doing it everyday.

I don't think anyone in the light will consider the tainted beings of Nil alive. Methrenton, takes the soul out of the bodies and turns them good. and Shiri, most of Celest was angry at Rhysus and others for what they did.

Shiro the decision by to kill the fae was undertaken by the Prince, I believe, and that represents Celest as a whole.

"Most of Celest" not being the leading Council. Hell, Lyren was there for the slaughter. She helped, believing that, if Elohora wished it, it must be done.

So, hold on. They have a soul, since you yourself said that Methrenton takes it out of their bodies and "turns them good". Yet how can they have a soul, and not be alive? They're not undead, which is just a perversion (yet still a state of) life.

They're alive. They just think they're "mis-guided". They need to be shown the "glories of the Light" once again. And the Avatar-loyal Fae should be viewed in the same light.

But that's just my opinion. Erion would be raiding ethereal Serenwilde constantly, if he was still a Celestian, killing Fae for Raziela.

Two of the four council members were there, and did it. Rhysus and that Aquamancer GM. Lyren was there, the current Celestine GM. As were a few paladins, and a few other Celestines. Rafael even agreed to help, he was just lucky he wasn't online for it.

But, they're all morons, right Shiro? You know, the same people that've pulled your ass out of the fire COUNTLESS times.

Erm. That's a bit off. First, Fae, Cherub, or Imp.

And, you lead them to Nifilhema. The Tainted Fae quest requires the Avatared-up Gorgulu.

I thought it was cherub/imp too, but I remember Isune telling me it was demons or angels...or...reinforcing that point, when I was talking to Her in the Ethereal a year or so back. :/ And okay, Narsrim kept telling me it was Gorgulu, but I THOUGHT it was Nifilhema. *peer*

p.s. Since by being undead, I am no longer alive, I want my need for food and sleep alleviated ASAP. So sayeth Shiro, so it must be true.

Seriously though guys, its obvious that logical argument won't get you anywhere, Celest only listens to whatever teachings are convinient for its mortals to hear at any given time. I can't beleive that the Supernals aren't UP IN ARMS at what they do (or aren't doing). But hey, I guess history and philosophy don't matter.

Alright, I will get to Manj a little later. Erion, you're the one who misread his information and screwed up big time. After the event, I went to japhiel and asked him if he talked to you about killing the fae and feeding them to Gorgulu. He said that was the most stupidest thing, you could ever do. I went to Elohora and spoke to her, she never said she told you to do this. It was your information alone, and the stupidity of the council not to investigate, which caused the death of faes and the one who nearly became a imp.

Olan, if my radiance works on liches and demons.. they aren't alive.

Zombies seek to eat living flesh, why would be other undead any different?

Hm, in my opinion... The undead are unnatural in the way they manipulate the fabrics of life to cause the undead, but the undead themselves are still made of organic material in they way to decomposition. So, in my opinion, the skill to make the undead is the unnatural, not really the undead themselves.

Rabbits eat their own dung, why would other living creatures be any different?

edit: meh

Shiro, you and a couple of Aquamancers with illusions doesn't constitute Elohora and Japhiel speaking to your character. Not that I'm really going to get into this, as that isn't the discussion at hand. If we're going to go on vague references, though, please, allow me.

You're the one who enemied Erion to the Celestines for killing Elaria (What the hell?). You're also the one that, relatively recently, asked several Magnagorans if you could be inducted into the city. You're also known for being incompitent, in most people's ill-graces, and being as stubborn as George W. Bush. In fact, you're probably the equivolant of George Bush (America's dumb-shtick of a president) in Celest. Thank GODS Celest isn't THAT bloody stupid. I also seem to remember you threw your name in EVERY contestion, and seemed to continue to have the hope that people would elect an illiterate, rambling, ignorant prick as Prince.

But I digress! Shiro has spoken! I demand Liches no longer require food or sleep, and not be afflicted by anything that could come from the Seal of Death curse, as they ARE dead, and thus the children of Urlach, and immune to such things as life threatening diseases. They're dead. Do you think the zombies on Resident Evil had a problem with AIDS?

And, in my own defense, Vesar was WITNESS to Elohora telling us that we had to attack Gorgulu. I told the Council this, what Japhiel had said (which was only what you get when you say "Gorgaliel" infront of him), and what we knew of Gorgulu - he ate Fae. And, it could easily had been avoided, had Isune spoke to Erion. He'd approached both her and Lacostian, she said she was busy and would get back to him, Lacostian said to talk to the Seren Leaders. Which he also conveyed to Rhysus, and as a group they decided to ignore it.

Why the HELL am I defending Erion's actions from back in damn November? And, Shiro, I'd like to remind you, it's not always the EXACT SAME DIVINE controlling mobs. Hell, from my understanding, Fain is controlling the Supernals a lot.