Although I can see the over-poweredness of underwater demesnes, especially considering the Ladantine/Marilynth conflict. We'd have no way to break it.

I see that too, Erion, but I still think that Aquas should be able to meld underwater. Perhaps we could be allowed to meld underwater, but only use a portion of our demesne effects. For example, allow us only 3 demesne effects underwater, or something like that.

If the Aqua's can meld underwater, doesn't that give the equal effect for Geomancers to use their skills under the ground? I mean it's our element so to speak, so shouldn't we be able to use it even when we cant move? much like you would when underwater? They should be able to meld in normally flooded rooms, like rivers and such, excluding tainted ones

They can meld the surface of any water-room. rivers, streams, tops of the oceans. But so can we. They just don't need to forceflood. Unless it's already tainted.

Vesar, see, it makes IC sense. It does. But for the sake of balance, even if you tore out half your more dangerous demesne effects, it still seems stupid that you can have the entirety of the inner sea and the sea of despair, connected through the Balach, and us unable to do a damned thing of it. We couldn't break it, because it's underwater, where only Aquamancers are able to meld. Unless a Geo could forcetaint underwater, which I'm unsure of, since I'm not one, nor have ever played one. See the problem?

I am thinking more along the lines of only allowing us to meld under the Inner Sea, as it's a natural underwater. The Sea of Despair is natural underwater taint, so, I'd think that the Geo's could meld that. As for breaking, that shouldn't be a problem. We can already forceflood under the Sea of Despair, we just can't meld. Same should be true of the Geo's and the Inner Sea.

I would call that 'choosing your terrain wisely'. There are advantages in differing types of terrain for the various melding guilds. This is why Geomancers like to demesne caves - it cuts out flying altogether. It's also pretty cool RP-wise. I've seen Geomancer demesnes underwater in the Inner Sea, was that a bug? How are Geomancers more capable underwater than Aquamancers?

No, you can break demesnes underwater. You just have to forcetaint it, then you can do demesne effects underwater. Not sure if its a bug or not.

Oh, all mages and druids can do demesne effects, it's just the fact that we can't meld that's being debated.

Eh. See, when a Geomancer forcetaints the surface of a water room, it is no longer a water room. It actually acts as though there's no water at all, at least with the melded rooms heading out of the Mag Harbour, into the Sea of Despair. You can walk across a certain number of melded rooms w/out waterwalking. I believe a divine pointed out in this thread or another Geos like, make a tainted island, or. Something. Iunno.

Wrong Erion, its when a Geomancer MELDS a water room, its like there is no water at all, not forcetaint it.

Edit: I know you had said that later, but in your first sentence you said the forcetaint lets someone walk over water, and I just had to point your inconsistency out.

Quiet you, I've already set sail, and yet to leave dry land. (Yay Cpt Morgan jingles!) So I'm typing kinna line-of-thought, and less lgoical. K thanx.

This includes demesne summon? Elaria's been demesne summoned into Ladantine's cave.

Are you positive about that, Eldanien? Anyone have a log of that? Are you sure it was demesne summon and not some other form?

You sure Silvanus? I could have sworn that just letting the taint flow out of your mouth destroyed anything in the room, thus taking the water out. None the less, if tainting/forcetainting DOES create an island, or something like that, it wouldn't make too much sense under water in the Inner Sea because it is leveled, and if the skill of Aqua melding was allowed anywhere in the water instead of just the top, and a Geo came to break it, say one level down, then that would take the water out of the location... but it doesn't really make sense to have a spot in the middle of the Inner Sea, two levels down, that has no water in it... taking into account physics, the weight of the water above would come crashing down, as well as the sides filling in... and the only thing (if we are trying to achieve realism here) I see, would if someone tainted an underwater spot, that the water comes down, and the level of the Inner Sea would drop... so then if all the Geo's tainted the lower spots, the Inner Sea would be gone?

If Silv is right in saying that forcetainting doesn't take the water out of the room, only melding does (which he is probably right), then it makes perfect sense to have the aqua demesne's breakable in the Inner Sea, and the Geo demesne's broken in the Sea of Despair.

But then what about the Hartstone? I know their demesne and powers aren't entirely elemental like the other two...

Could have forcetaint make a preserved bubble of tainted air surrounding the island when it's used underwater.

Perhaps, but then the Inner Sea could be completly "Taint Bubbled" if some Magnagorans put their minds to it... its something that can be toyed with too much, and probably abused.

They are not able to use all effects, because some effects can only be used in a demesne (melded rooms).

I agree that aquamancers should be powerful in water, but I do not agree that we should be able to meld underwater. I think no one should be able to meld underwater. My reasoning is that melding underwater would allow for the use of certain skills that would definitely increase how dangerous it is to be in a demesne beyond what is tenable. I know just from my experience of summoning enemies to points under the inner sea, I can normally cause even an Ur’Guard to lich and then die again before they can break the surface. Stillwater already makes it so that waterbreathing is useless underwater; if you add in the other abilities that can only be used in a demesne (i.e. Currents, Whirlpool, and Tsunami), the average person could easily die just by demesne effects alone. It would make perfect role-play sense, but I am a firm believer that role-play must always take a backseat to legal fun.

When you forcetaint it, it does not create an island. If I forcetaint the Sea of Despair, nothing happens, its already tainted water.

I agree with Jeb on this one. It's kinda far fetched that Aquamancers alone would be able to do something. I don't know much about the Magic Archetype, but from what I've heard, neither of the other two can trap people in such as way as would be possible if the Aqua's could meld underwater.